New player, are spell casters weak?

Teekayy
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Teekayy » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:36 pm

Magic is gimped in TDE 5 in contrast to TDE 4.1.

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Bosper
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Bosper » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:42 pm

Thats not really true. i couldnt cast a 2d6+14 dmg Firelance for 6 ASP in 4th. i would have spend about 4 times as much astral points. The Dmg=ASP cost rule made combat magic pretty useless except for one big spell to end the Final Battle in 2 rounds.
What is true is that you cant have the same big effects with single spells anymore. but you can cast more often. which makes a mage feel like a mage and not like a Cannon with the longest reloading time ever.

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Morgoth Feuerklinge
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Morgoth Feuerklinge » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:27 am

2d6+14 dmg Firelance for 6 ASP is not a big effect? I don't agree with them. It sounds very mighty If you consider that you do not have so many life points.

In TDE4.1 your mage can learn a much of spells and skills to improve his fighting skills. You have various magic wand spells to reduce ASP costs and to save spells into it and trigger it later, when needed. You will be able to carry a strongt flame sword. With spells like Paralysis you can bring a fight instantly to end. Or with a high-level Horriphobus you can enchant many enemies at the same time etc etc. And don't forget the fast and cheap "Blitz dich find" Spell. Further more a mage will or should learn Alchemy. Then he is in the position to create Magic drinks to refill his ASP. If you use not only the flame lance, you can do a lot as a magician.

Can it be summarized on this way? In TDE4.1, a magician was so really capable of acting only in the higher levels, while in TD5 a magician is capable quite rather early.
Please excuse my bad English, I'm a beginner.

TDE since: 1998
Current TDE rule set: 4.1
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GTStar
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby GTStar » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:32 am

In TDE 5 a magician is (or has to be) more specialized than in 4.1. It is not anymore a Jack of all trades as it could be in 4.1.

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Bosper
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Bosper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:45 am

yup and he isnt more capable form beginning. The paralyse spell doesnt completely paralyse at low skill points. and the Blitz dich find (what is it? flash? ) doesnt completely blind people anymore. A TDE 4 mage could start with about 30 spells from all varieties, some of those with all or nothing effects like complete paralysis. I am glad that this changed. Now you have to specialize to get good effects, thats how a mage should work.

and 2d6+14 isnt that much compared to up to 20D6 that a TDE4 mage could achieve. But he would have to pay the whole dmg as ASP so he usually didnt cast spells until the big fight and then ended it right there and was drained. Not very magical. now he can cast more often without fear to miss out the big opportunity.

Same for blessed ones. With a regular regeneration and cheaper and more useful chants they actually use their godly powers more than every 2 adventures. In a time of Heroes and twilight of the gods its a big improvement. i know many players disagree and liked them to do the big thing every 6 sessions or so, i prefer a blessed one that actually performs his abilities. Gives his blessings to his fellowhip and also NPCs. who isnt like "Bless the Innkeep? I might need the KaP later! i dont get them back until i roll for meditation in a few days"

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Morgoth Feuerklinge
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Morgoth Feuerklinge » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:26 am

For me I don't like the new blessed in TDE5. They are now like magicians. A miracle is ... or should be very rare. When a blessed can do it so often it destroys the mystic. That's only my opinion.

Yes, the "Blitz dich find" is a flash. And yes the paralyse is at the beginning not very strong. Therefore I said that only a high level mage is very very strong. The most magic academies has a curriculum with spells they want to teach. Of course, it is possible to learn from the start about 30 spells (I didn't count it) but in my groups the mage only took few spells. I guess about about 12 spells. So he is more specialized.

To your theory that a mage only save his ASP for the final boss: Our mage is mostly emtpy until boss fight. :lol:
Please excuse my bad English, I'm a beginner.

TDE since: 1998
Current TDE rule set: 4.1
Played adventures: 55

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Bosper
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Bosper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:27 pm

problem with the blessed ones is that the mechanics and the world that is described didnt work together. A blessed one wasnt able to do his intended work for example in a temple. he wouldnt have enough KaP to do so.now he can bless a few people a day without worrying. Plus most chants werent that useful while a few traditions were way to good. A blessed one should do the work of his god. He shouldnt hesitate to help because he might need his power later that week.
Also the twilight of the gods are times in which every god needs to empower his servants. the 12 arent save in their place in Alveran anymore, they can now be replaced by others. So the Karma flows more freely.

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julianwolfe
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby julianwolfe » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:11 pm

Don't let the book trick you into thinking you should take as many spells as the professions show. All that's going to do is frustrate you as every spell fails because you don't have enough points to put into it. Mages aren't weak, but the choices of the designers as to what utility is there and how low you can go before hitting that constant-failure threshold are just un-fun.

We got better role play utility out of the mages so far by looking at what the profession gives them, seeing what spells seem fun to you, and not all going in a specific direction. 6-7 competent spells versus 10-12 spells the character barely has a chance at casting is a good change, and then putting more points into skills will increase your fun factor considerably and get rid of the fail associated with a low number of starting AP.

This is just general advice. None of the mages we've played so far have been combat oriented beyond having a single ace-in-the-hole sort of combat spell around, and they ended up being fun, but not before disregarding the sort of split the professions infer.

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Bosper
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby Bosper » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:20 am

julianwolfe wrote:Don't let the book trick you into thinking you should take as many spells as the professions show. All that's going to do is frustrate you as every spell fails because you don't have enough points to put into it. Mages aren't weak, but the choices of the designers as to what utility is there and how low you can go before hitting that constant-failure threshold are just un-fun.

We got better role play utility out of the mages so far by looking at what the profession gives them, seeing what spells seem fun to you, and not all going in a specific direction. 6-7 competent spells versus 10-12 spells the character barely has a chance at casting is a good change, and then putting more points into skills will increase your fun factor considerably and get rid of the fail associated with a low number of starting AP.

This is just general advice. None of the mages we've played so far have been combat oriented beyond having a single ace-in-the-hole sort of combat spell around, and they ended up being fun, but not before disregarding the sort of split the professions infer.



Also what more than a year of TDE5 showed us that its way more fun to have a mage with fewer spells that finds and learns new ones from time to time opposed to a 30+ Spells TDE4 mage that was basically fully done at creation

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julianwolfe
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Re: New player, are spell casters weak?

Postby julianwolfe » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:36 pm

Also, just pretend Bannbaladin doesn't exist.


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