Botch tables

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Bosper
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Re: Botch tables

Postby Bosper » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:41 pm

Warden wrote:I assume the botch tables are optional?

afaik
Thorgarth wrote:
Bosper wrote:I dont know the rolemaster rules. I got the book, but only because it was cheap and the pictures were pretty :P I saw that there are quite a lot tables, but are the rules comparable easy to translate into TDE ? Thats the case with the pathfinder decks, sere are very few cards that have to be re-interpreted for TDE. And they are card decks and not additional books to carry around for a table (or additional pieces of copypaper). We like to land our crits and then draw a card to see what happens.and since there were a few empty cards in there we added some critical hits and misses of our own. Its way more interesting and does take into account if a weapon is blunt/sharp/pointy etc (i bet rolemaster does too, but again, the cards are practical)


Actually Rolemaster´s weapon fumbles are not described per type of attack/dmg but general weapon type...e.g. One-handed Arms, Polearms and Spears, etc. Most effects apply # of rounds of stun, stun no parry, depending on the severity of the fumble (result of the dice). In some cases it results in critics being suffered which means rolling on the crit table and in this case it does correspond to the type of damage the weapon does...e.g. Slash crit, Krush crit, etc, with the severity of the crit being stated... e.g. Crit D, which means the player rolls % on the table D.

As for crit tables they are not really very easy to apply to TDE since the severity and type of crit is directly dependent on the To Hit roll cross-referenced with the armor of the target (really REALLY ingenious and simple, contrary to what most people think)...e.g. a Mace attacks scores a 111 on a reinforced Leather Coat (AT8), which means the target takes 11 hp AND suffers a B Crit on the Krush table...

It does sound quite complicated, but i know my games well enough that i wont let me fool myself into believing that it has to be.
But i prefer as few dice rolls as possible. Thats why i like the cards.

Silverthorne
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Re: Botch tables

Postby Silverthorne » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:19 am

It is stated in the corebook several times. If you do not like the rule do not use it. I however think that if your going to drop the crit fumbles you also have to drop the crit hits.

On the flip side, How would an archer injure himself with his weapon. Hmm, ricochet, firing straight up and it coming down to hit a limb or non vital area. How does one hit self for double damage, lets see same two ways but it hits a vital area. Get descriptive with it and make it funny for the players. Regan drew back his bow and loosed and arrow at the orc, (fumble) the arrow flicks out and hits a tree knot, then a stone, then the edge of Thara's shield and then winds up in Regan's knee. Try living that one down.

Thorgarth
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Re: Botch tables

Postby Thorgarth » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:49 am

@ Bosper

Actually it´s quite easy and envolves less rolls than TDE, since there is one "major" roll that tells you IF you Hit and if so what damage it takes, AND also if you score a crit (and what kind of severity). ALL in just one roll. IF you scored a hit then you roll a second time to check for the crit result. While in TDE you roll to hit and if a possible crit (or Botch) is scored you need to roll again to confirm it or not. And then you roll for damage (and if a crit was scored you double that score). ;)

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Bosper
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Re: Botch tables

Postby Bosper » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:18 am

Thorgarth wrote:@ Bosper

Actually it´s quite easy and envolves less rolls than TDE, since there is one "major" roll that tells you IF you Hit and if so what damage it takes, AND also if you score a crit (and what kind of severity). ALL in just one roll. IF you scored a hit then you roll a second time to check for the crit result. While in TDE you roll to hit and if a possible crit (or Botch) is scored you need to roll again to confirm it or not. And then you roll for damage (and if a crit was scored you double that score). ;)

Sounds good to me, so it would be just an alternative table to roll on in TDE. But if the results are hard to translate into TDE Rules one would have to check if the work is worth it....wait. i got the book, i could be the one to check :P one minute please



Post scriptum: 1)ok the A-E thing is a problem here. 2) i dislike that there are crits with no effect 3)lots of little numbers with letters i dont understand :P 4) the discriptions could be used to re-write the tables with not much effort and a little creativity. 5) quite a lot instant deaths. not very TDE like. The Card Decks have 1 card with death. a chance of about 1:50 i think that should only happen (if at all) in the worst case
result: Could be done for an alternative Table. Takes a little work but might be worth it. maybe i give it a try and post the first houserule here to discuss ^^. maybe i'll put the tables into my rulebook in case i forget to bring the cards

Silverthorne
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Re: Botch tables

Postby Silverthorne » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:01 pm

Bosper wrote:
Thorgarth wrote:@ Bosper

Actually it´s quite easy and envolves less rolls than TDE, since there is one "major" roll that tells you IF you Hit and if so what damage it takes, AND also if you score a crit (and what kind of severity). ALL in just one roll. IF you scored a hit then you roll a second time to check for the crit result. While in TDE you roll to hit and if a possible crit (or Botch) is scored you need to roll again to confirm it or not. And then you roll for damage (and if a crit was scored you double that score). ;)

Sounds good to me, so it would be just an alternative table to roll on in TDE. But if the results are hard to translate into TDE Rules one would have to check if the work is worth it....wait. i got the book, i could be the one to check :P one minute please



Post scriptum: 1)ok the A-E thing is a problem here. 2) i dislike that there are crits with no effect 3)lots of little numbers with letters i dont understand :P 4) the discriptions could be used to re-write the tables with not much effort and a little creativity. 5) quite a lot instant deaths. not very TDE like. The Card Decks have 1 card with death. a chance of about 1:50 i think that should only happen (if at all) in the worst case
result: Could be done for an alternative Table. Takes a little work but might be worth it. maybe i give it a try and post the first houserule here to discuss ^^. maybe i'll put the tables into my rulebook in case i forget to bring the cards


The numbers with letters refer to the damage with which crit table listing to use.

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MadBeard
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Re: Botch tables

Postby MadBeard » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:43 am

Thorgarth wrote:This kind of reasoning really gets on my nerves... So since this is around since the 3rd Edition it must be good and we must accept it has cannon, and good at that?

The results MadBeard commented on indeed seems a bit over the top, especially those on p. 243 " 12 - Hurt yourself badly - Injure yourself badly, suffering double your weapon’s damage. An unarmed combatant suffers 2D6 DP." In this case it´s even weird that a defense vs ranged attack should case damage by the defenders weapons especially in the case of it being unarmed (does he punch or elbow himself in the face just for the fun of it), let alone suffering 2d6 for being unarmed.

Just use common sense.


I'll sure use a common sense and houserule this. Because this hurt yourself results are really not what I want to happen. In some cases it's sure logical but in most it is not.

GTStar wrote:No, that only means we Germans know and like it that way. If you don't, just change it by house rule :)


:lol:

Warden wrote:I assume the botch tables are optional?


Yes, botch tables are optional rules. Default botch result is:
If the confimation roll fails, the following happens.
• The hero suffers 1D6+2 DP (ignoring PRO).
I'd have to be a warrior, a slave I couldn't be.
A soldier and a conqueror, fighting to be free.

"Warrior" - Wishbone Ash


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