Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

User avatar
Bosper
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:38 am

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Bosper » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:28 am

Page 312
"Liturgical chants are not the only tools available to Blessed Ones. Most Churches and cults also use ceremonies, which take much more time and preparation but are still basically liturgical chants and use the same rules."
they do count. rituals count against spells, ceremonies count against chants. cantrips/blessings dont . cantrips and blessings explicitly say that they are bought as special abilities, not as spells/chants. ceremonies "use the same rules" als chants and dont state anything else.

Flash
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Flash » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:30 pm

Bosper wrote:they do count. rituals count against spells, ceremonies count against chants. cantrips/blessings dont . cantrips and blessings explicitly say that they are bought as special abilities, not as spells/chants. ceremonies "use the same rules" als chants and dont state anything else.


After looking at my German books I would agree on the rituals and ceremonies counting for the limit. (And there is indeed a translation mistake in the English book in regards to that.)

Blessings/Cantrips, Elven magical Songs and Witch Curse are interesting edge causes as you can easily build an argument for both. They are unclear in the German book as well.

Warden
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 am

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Warden » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:01 pm

If experienced TDE players are not sure, then this needs clarifying

User avatar
Bosper
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:38 am

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Bosper » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:51 pm

If you can increase your skillvalue it is a spell/chant if not it's a special ability. rituals/ceremonies are just long Spells/chants and it says so in then book.and this includes elven Songs("elven Songs count as Rituals")witch curses ("curses are treated as Spells of the complexity B") etc. I thought it was pretty clear. PpNo one I play with (19 people in total) ever thought different when they read the book.
If you Roll 3 DICE it's a skill.Skills include Talents/Spells/chants (page 21) there is no extra category for Rituals or ceremonies so they can't be outside the categories that exist
If you don't Roll it can't be a skill per Definition so it can't be a Spell or chant. So blessings and cantrips are as the book says bought as special abilities

Flash
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Flash » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:35 pm

Bosper wrote:If you can increase your skillvalue it is a spell/chant if not it's a special ability. rituals/ceremonies are just long Spells/chants and it says so in then book.and this includes elven Songs("elven Songs count as Rituals")witch curses ("curses are treated as Spells of the complexity B") etc. I thought it was pretty clear. PpNo one I play with (19 people in total) ever thought different when they read the book.
If you Roll 3 DICE it's a skill.Skills include Talents/Spells/chants (page 21) there is no extra category for Rituals or ceremonies so they can't be outside the categories that exist
If you don't Roll it can't be a skill per Definition so it can't be a Spell or chant. So blessings and cantrips are as the book says bought as special abilities


One way to interpret it. Perfectly valid.

No let me play advocatus diaboli :twisted:

In the German corebook the limitations are for "Zauber"

"Zauber" is per defined per page as general term for cantrips, spell and rituals. Page 308 defines ceremonies as ritual magic and liturgical chants as spell equivalents. Blessings are not listened as single Blessing but as one 12 Blessings entry.

Every single profession in every books so far published follows this logic and lists these three types under the Spell/Liturgical Chant category while stuff like witch curses and elven songs and the druid rituals in the Warring Kingdoms book are listed as Special Abilities.

No single magical profession gets more the a few cantrips so that they are in danger of going over the limitation. But stuff for example like Witch curses just gets a number of APs like languages without care how many you take with them.

If you follow the text your interpretation is valid. If you go for the definitions and the professions formating my presented interpretation is valid as well.

I find it honestly somewhat confusing. And interestingly a lot of people that come fresh to the system will probable look at the professions far more then at the written sentences at the end of the various rules text for the spell, rituals and so on.

That box on page 45 is imho in need of a serious overhaul.

Warden
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 am

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Warden » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:32 am

Bosper wrote:If you can increase your skillvalue it is a spell/chant if not it's a special ability. rituals/ceremonies are just long Spells/chants and it says so in then book.and this includes elven Songs("elven Songs count as Rituals")witch curses ("curses are treated as Spells of the complexity B") etc. I thought it was pretty clear. PpNo one I play with (19 people in total) ever thought different when they read the book.
If you Roll 3 DICE it's a skill.Skills include Talents/Spells/chants (page 21) there is no extra category for Rituals or ceremonies so they can't be outside the categories that exist
If you don't Roll it can't be a skill per Definition so it can't be a Spell or chant. So blessings and cantrips are as the book says bought as special abilities

I understand now that Ceremonies and Rituals are treated like skills for obtaining and improving. I just need to know whether or not they both count towards the limit of 12 as detailed on page 39.

It seems they do count toward them.

User avatar
HEX the Dark
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:43 am

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby HEX the Dark » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:29 am

Very valid points.
Does anyone remember how itmwas in 4e? Maybe this helps.
Never trust a smiling gamemaster

bluedragon7
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby bluedragon7 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:13 am

4th Edition allowed you to start with up to 30 spells (some of whom are now rituals) and an unlimited number of 4th ed. rituals (they were then special abilities and most of those same rituals still are), as long as you could pay for it at generation.

A typical guild Mage got around 20 spells from his academy and could activate another 10.
Plus at least one object ritual (binding of the staff) sometimes more.

User avatar
Lambert
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 2:13 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby Lambert » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:40 pm

I think starting with 12 spells is plenty.
Specially if you are a newcomer to the game.

If you started with 30 spells it would be easy to get lost in all the possibilities.

bluedragon7
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Just bought the pdf so I've some questions

Postby bluedragon7 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:12 pm

That is true, also one aim is to have mages balanced to other characters. In 4th edition at start of play a Mage was significantly more powerful (at least potentially) than a beggar. Now they have the same AP if both are starting as experienced. The 1100AP beggar will be the master beggar, famous and well known while the 1100 AP Mage is a mere Adept, that has not yet mastered all the spells his academy can teach him.


Return to “Rules Questions (TDE)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests