Strange Decisions?

Warden
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 am

Strange Decisions?

Postby Warden » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:03 am

I'm not sure if you want to watch all 45mins of this video, but the presenter is quite unimpressed by the way Ulisses Spiel are dealing with TDE release schedule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhqyTlJzGM

Three things I take from the above video

1. The core rules only detail six of the twelve gods and you have to buy another book for the rest. This to me is mystifying.
2. There are three magic books still to come out.
3. Theatre Knights (I think) has only seen a third of the complete campaign and we have no idea if they will release more.
Last edited by Warden on Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bosper
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:38 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Bosper » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:45 am

There are even more than twelve gods. There are 19 playable cults so far, with several new coming soon-ish. Just like with the magical professions you only get a representative choice of a few in the core rules, there is just to much in TDE to do all at once

TDE 4 had several dozen of gods and their blessed ones at the end.

Morgoth
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:41 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Morgoth » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:12 pm

Warden wrote:I'm not sure if you want to watch all 45mins of this video, but the presenter is quite unimpressed by the way Ulisses Spiel are dealing with TDE release schedule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhqyTlJzGM

Two things I take from the above video

1. The core rules only detail six of the twelve gods and you have to buy another book for the rest. This to me is mystifying.
2. There are three magic books still to come out.
3. Theatre Knights (I think) has only seen a third of the complete campaign and we have no idea if they will release more.


The Magic Book is already out to Backers of the Kickstarter; the books have been sent to print and will be available in retail as soon as they are printed. Furthermore in their last update they said the Kickstarter for the blessed one book is already in preparation and will be up at the end of the year or the beginning of the next. This campaign will also include the remainder 3 of the theater knights books. That means the pdfs of all these will be available to backers sometime early next year at most, while printed books to follow a few months later for those who prefer printed books.

However I do hope the Magic books II and III kickstarters follow soon, as well as the Ablernian sourcebook. Adventures should not be as high a priority as the expansion supplements. (note I would love nothing more than everything to be translated on an asap basis, but since translation takes time and resources, we should at least aim for the major rules expansions to take a priority). The recently released Demons books should also take a priority, as though there are 12 archdemons and Guild Mage spells for summoning demons, we have very few to play with currently, only the Zhant and Heshthot & Gotongi in the core and a few more in the bestiary.

The best way we can help increase the demand for The Dark Eye (english version) is advertise the game positively everywhere we can, such as other major forums (like enworld.org, rpg.net, paizo message boards, etc)

The Dark Eye is fantastic, a great alternative to D&D and Pathfinder. The only thing against it IMO is how much its married to its setting, but its not that hard to either make Aventuria your own and change the setting to your liking, or set your adventure/campaign in a remote unexplored part of the continent. It is much harder to completely ignore the setting and set your game in a land/setting of your choosing, but not impossible at all.

tempest13
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby tempest13 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:26 pm

I saw that video LAST year. I also pointed out several things that she got wrong. Apparently when she reupped it it changed the date and erased all the old comments. She is a fan of DSA4 and has a chip on her shoulder about DSA5.
I really want to see Seven Winds Coast come out after the Works of the Gods . I also would like to see the last 3 things not in the schedule that were originally released in 2016 in German released. Klingen der Nacht, the book of names , and the 9th herowork. With those released along with the seven wind coast and the Works of the Gods we will only be missing 3 or 4 adventures to bring us up to the mid 2017 schedule for the German edition.
I also really want the 2nd bestiary and 2nd equipment book.

Warden
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Warden » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:03 am

Interesting, thank you for the feedback

Thrar
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:41 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Thrar » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:47 am

Well, whatever the motivation, the author of that video is certainly not the only one who is put off by the way material is distributed across releases. That may have been how things were done 15 years ago (I'm told D&D 3e worked that way too), but the international market does seem to expect something else nowadays.

Compare this to D&D 5e where you need exactly 2 books, the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Players' Handbook, and you're good to go. As far as players are concerned, even just the PHB is enough. And if you use D&D Beyond (their online platform) you might need nothing at all. There are further supplements, sure, but they appear as expansions providing completely new content such as races and classes.
Many modern roleplaying systems even make do with just one set of materials, often at a lower price point, and you're set.

In TDE, by contrast, the Core Rules alone feel incomplete, both with regards to the magical and the divine professions. They don't form a closed system, clearly some content has been left out. I think it's a good product, but it also acts as a teaser to tell people "go give us more money for the complete experience".
When buying a book of this size and price point, many people expect a complete experience. Maybe they'll be willing to buy one more book to round it out, but telling them that there are (in German) 3 magic books, 2 divine books, and 2 compendia, in addition to gods know how many regional supplements and modules, I can understand how they might start to feel like it's not worth the trouble or money.

Dany40
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:32 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Dany40 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:22 pm

The real big mistake was really to describe only six of the top twelve gods in the base book.
The pantheon of the twelve is central to the game universe, providing that half of them made no sense.
But apart from that, this game is played on several works to obtain its full coherence, and it is an assumed fact it seems to me.
Other games like Eclipse Phase work the same way.
Let's be clear, for the Dark Eye you need God I, Magic I and Compendium I to have a consistent foundation of focus I rules.

For me everything else is a bonus.

I expect of course that the Basic Book, the Almanac and the bestiary are already included in the list.

Warden
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 am

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby Warden » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:30 pm

That's still six books to be comfortable knowing you have the full TDE experience. Don't get me wrong, I really like the setting, and the rules, but it's quite an expensive game to play. Not only that, even if money was no object, I don't really want the rules spread over half a dozen books. And me being the GM, that's what it would have to be.

tempest13
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Strange Decisions?

Postby tempest13 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:22 pm

To get the full experience you need all the books. What would you remove from the book to put in more spells or religions?
The way it was explained to me was that the 6 other major religions are harder to play in a classic adventuring group. Compared to the basic 4th edition rules this was expansive. The 4th edition had no religions and only Guild Mages and Elves. And only about 30 spells total.
1st Edition AD&D took 3 years to produce the 3 books necessary to play the game. Imagine trying to play without experience rules for a whole year.


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