Feedback on Free RPG day rules

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Kamelion
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby Kamelion » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:04 pm

ProfessorK wrote:KO almost never happens to PCs because they spend point to avoid it, but it up the tension and a point spent ther is a point they cant spend elsewhere that round>

KO *does* happen to villains and is a cause for whoops from the players.

This is true. My players would rather take a Wound than a KO because the former won't take them out of the fight immediately. And far more enemies go down through KOs than Shock. It's an interesting dynamic. I'd need to give TE a proper shakedown with my regular group before seeing what they think.
The name that can be named is not the true name.

JeffWalklin
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby JeffWalklin » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:24 pm

ProfessorK wrote:In MUTT, I enshrined the optional rule which TE also does that your effect is the amount of success in your attack over the difficulty, minus any defense.
Its does solve the glass jawqed ninja problem, and makes a lot of sense... the more successful you are at attacking the greater the damage.


I don't want to sidetrack the conversation...but what is a MUTT?

Kuildeous
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby Kuildeous » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:43 am

I've been so used to these new rules that I forgot all about the hubbub that was brought up in the early days of these forums with the bonus dice. With the Kickstarter bringing more publicity to Torg Eternity, I shouldn't be surprised to see it come back.

I've run a few demos with the new rules. The bonus die is pretty intuitive for new players. It does add a tiny extra step in determining damage. In oTorg, a player only had to say, "My Melee skill is 13+5, and my damage is 12+5." In Torg Eternity, a player has to know if it's a Good or Outstanding success before rolling dice. It became second nature as GM for me to announce what kind of success they get, and the players in those demos instinctively grabbed the bonus dice and rolled them.

The only stumbling blocks I encountered during these demos are:
a) Treating a 6 as a 5. I purposefully chose d6s with a symbol or logo on the 6 so that there technically are only five numbers on the die. The Kickstarter shows that the official Torg dice will have a symbol as well. This didn't take too long for players to get used to. It's only early in the demo when a player expects the bonus die to act like a standard d6.
b) Weird results when attacking two vastly differently combatants. Say you want to kick the mook in front of you while firing off a shot at the gloating mastermind on the pyramid. You have to compare your kick to the mook's Melee or Unarmed defense and then compare your gun to the mastermind's Dodge. It's conceivable that you might get a Good result on the mastermind and an Outstanding success on the mook. So now you have to roll one die for the mastermind and then add a second die for the mook. This has happened in one of my demos, though it's not commonplace.

So it's not perfect, but it captures the cinematic feel of the universe. It brings in a bit more swinginess, so the Storm Knights have a chance to bring down the big bad quickly, but Storm Knights are also aware that the same could happen to them. That mook over there could roll exceptionally well and knock a protagonist out of the fight.

One thing I've learned from observing these fights is that Storm Knights should aspire to achieving at least a Good result in combat. Unless the base damage is significantly higher than the base Toughness, a normal hit is just going to result in one or two Shock. You want that Good result so you can roll higher damage. Of course, Possibilities are a limited resource, so you may have to suck it up and keep your normal hit.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:13 pm

Kuildeous wrote:One thing I've learned from observing these fights is that Storm Knights should aspire to achieving at least a Good result in combat. Unless the base damage is significantly higher than the base Toughness, a normal hit is just going to result in one or two Shock. You want that Good result so you can roll higher damage. Of course, Possibilities are a limited resource, so you may have to suck it up and keep your normal hit.


Yes. In fact, with physical attacks, I usually recommend not worrying about a miss, and spending Possibilities on getting a Standard hit to a Good one is a better spend.
Dean Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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Gargoyle
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby Gargoyle » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:16 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
Kuildeous wrote:One thing I've learned from observing these fights is that Storm Knights should aspire to achieving at least a Good result in combat. Unless the base damage is significantly higher than the base Toughness, a normal hit is just going to result in one or two Shock. You want that Good result so you can roll higher damage. Of course, Possibilities are a limited resource, so you may have to suck it up and keep your normal hit.


Yes. In fact, with physical attacks, I usually recommend not worrying about a miss, and spending Possibilities on getting a Standard hit to a Good one is a better spend.


Second Chance cards in the new destiny deck? Those are really good for misses.
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TorgHacker
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:25 pm

Yep. They can cancel Mishaps too.
Dean Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

ProfessorK
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby ProfessorK » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:31 pm

JeffWalklin wrote:
ProfessorK wrote:In MUTT, I enshrined the optional rule which TE also does that your effect is the amount of success in your attack over the difficulty, minus any defense.
Its does solve the glass jawqed ninja problem, and makes a lot of sense... the more successful you are at attacking the greater the damage.


I don't want to sidetrack the conversation...but what is a MUTT?


Its my house system. TORG like gameplay, HERO system like creation.

You can grab a free PDF here if you are interested.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/144 ... st_epoch=0

MUTT 2.0 was due to come out end of the summer but I may hold it back to look at bringing it more in line with TE.

mattritchie
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby mattritchie » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:50 pm

I'm not one that wants to bring the K/O system back, but the most obvious solution would seem to be:

Attack Results
Good: Weapon Base Damage; K
Great: Weapon Base Damage + 1dE; O
Superior: Weapon Base Damage +2dE; K/O (or just KO?)

or...

Damage Results
0-5 above toughness: 2 shock; K
6-9: 1W, 2shock; O
10-14: 2W, 4 shock; K/O
15-19: 3W, 6 shock: KO

But...sometimes the most obvious solution isn't the best.

The biggest problem that I see here is that combat is now sucking down more possibilities to avoid KOs, so its probably creating some increased demand for possibility awards that isn't built into the Cosm cards. Maybe you increase your beginning-of-act reset to 4 instead of 3...?

Perhaps you resolve this by only allowing it in melee or unarmed combat, and by asking the attacker to make a CHOICE: either wound and shock or do KO damage.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:50 pm

Something I think people advocating Ks and Os forget is that for most mooks, a single Wound takes them out anyway. Plus the Minion rules treat their Shock as a pool instead of tracking individually. And being taken out by Wounds doesn't necessarily mean death.
Dean Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

mattritchie
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Re: Feedback on Free RPG day rules

Postby mattritchie » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:24 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Something I think people advocating Ks and Os forget is that for most mooks, a single Wound takes them out anyway. Plus the Minion rules treat their Shock as a pool instead of tracking individually. And being taken out by Wounds doesn't necessarily mean death.


Despite my theorizing above, I'm glad the design team went this route. As in all the other systems that I run, where there's good narrative support for it, I'm going to let my players dictate exactly what they are trying to do to a character (incapacitate, knock out, etc.). In such situations, they'll have the option to (a) attempt shock-only damage (ignoring wound results), or (b) inflict "wounds" that are clearly incapacitating, but non-lethal. In short, if they want a knockout result from an attack, they can accomplish it by describing their attack in the right way. No need for more mechanics.


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