Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

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Kamelion
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Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Kamelion » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:01 pm

If you wanted to use rules from Torg Eternity to improve original Torg, which ones would you import into the original game? Which ones could you use that would require the least changes to the original rules set?

(I'm asking because I'm looking at the best way to convert my ongoing original Torg game to Torg Eternity - and showcasing what Torg Eternity has to offer seems to be a good way to do that.)

Top of the list for me would be the new approach to combat - a unified chart, using bonus dice instead of carrying the bonus over, removing KOs, giving ords only one Wound level. It looks like this might port over pretty well as-is. 15 result points under the new system give a similar damage output to the old (3 Wounds and handful of shock) but that might just be a coincidence.

Cosm cards would be a cool addition - we used some Living Land ones last week - and maybe some of the new World Laws.

Thoughts, anyone?
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Stormchild
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Stormchild » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:27 pm

As far as I can tell by now, TorgEternity has already done what you asked. They took oTorg, removed the outdated parts but kept what was original and worked. In some cases - like the combat chart you mentioned - they just burned away some fat and streamlined it a bit.
I don't make things complicated. That's the way they get, all by themselves.

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Kamelion
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Kamelion » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:31 pm

Yes, I know that. But I'm considering ways to ease the transition as opposed to just giving them a 250 page book to read :). Hence the question.
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JeffWalklin
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby JeffWalklin » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:08 pm

I've been considering the same issue. I have a group that's been running for 6 month and they each have running subplots they want to continue.

One option we have discussed is that we do a soft restart in T:E and then reintroduce the subplots once we get going. Still not sure of the details but for the most part it will probably involve just making sure that certain NPCs show up in this new version of the game.

Yes, we will also have to agree to hand-wave a few things but...when don't we hand-wave something. 8-)

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Rabbitball
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Rabbitball » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:10 pm

Ruleswise, just make the switch. Give them the new Destiny cards instead of their old Drama cards. Half the people will just notice the new art and not even notice the subtle differences in effect until you point them out. The Drama Deck works mostly the same way (with slight changes for Stymied and Inspiration), although the "Villain Approved Actions" only matter for some villains and even then they use the same ones as the heroes. Cosm cards are just an added bennie, and your players are likely to catch on quickly.

As for the characters themselves, convert the skills that import over but drop attributes by 1-2 points each to simulate the new average. Assign Perks to cover what skill conversion can't do (spells, miracles, psionics, etc.) and then figure out how much XP it would have taken to make characters of that level. Chances are you are a very experienced party, so factor that in when running TorgE adventures that assume starting characters.

AS for subplots, keep them. You don't have to worry about Campaign cards, so if the subplot makes sense, go for it.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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InertiaKitty
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby InertiaKitty » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:54 pm

The rule that possibilities aren't XP is HUGE. I'm suggesting that to the GM of my 1st Ed. 7th Sea game, 'cause he has a problem many players throwing drama dice left and right, while others are stockpiling. This will get people spending them all on drama.
"Whaddaya mean 'Twinkies are even a contradiction in Core Earth'?!?!?"

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Kamelion
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Kamelion » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:11 am

Yeah, I think a full-on conversion is probably the best solution. I was just wondering what the best one or two rules to use right away would be. My group may not be comfortable with a straight conversion. I think it will be fine, but I'm trying to take their ideas into account here :)
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Stormchild
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Stormchild » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:07 am

You could also let them walk through a portal (just like the machine Mara used powered by the Poss of volunteers or an eternity shard should do the trick) and they get out in a world that is no difference than the one they know. They should come to the conclusion they haven't moved at all until they find out about the differences. When they realize they are not in oTorg but in TorgEternity they are in the same league as Quinn Sebastian and could become an even more important part of the war than they are as Storm Knights per se.
I don't make things complicated. That's the way they get, all by themselves.

ZorValachan
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:28 pm

I did the XP/Possibility split before I knew about TE. I would start everyone with 10 Possibilities (5 for ravagons), as the templates pretty much do. From this, subtract any powers that have adventure costs (such as pulp powers, elves/giants/tharkoldu, etc). After each Act award 2-3 XP. XP are used to increase skills and attributes. If players do "downtime" to make spells, weird science devices or other things, subtract any Possibilities used (not XP). Drama/Glories turned in at the end of the adventure transfer over to the next adventure (normally 3-4 Acts) reset of 10. So, if they played a Glory, everyone would start at 13, but that Tharkoldu with a 6 Pos cost, would be at 7. All characters earn the same XP (just like I found out TE does).

I would convert some perks over that didn't have subsystems. The new Magic/Miracles/martial arts/Pulp powers are super limited/nerfed compared to the old ones. I might tinker with the Psionics (cause it flows better easier) of TE and replace the OT version.

Drop Tharkold's Spirit, OT Tharkold was just a steroided up Cyberpapacy before.

See if the bonus dice work instead of adding the bonus number to damage. Use Good result and Spectacular as the +1BD or +2BD.

Definitely add the cosm cards! Modify World Laws to be what you think is best between the two.

After Reading through TE, I love the Fluff for the most part. The crunch had me excited pre-kickstarter, but after reading... I don't know what to think.

Cosm Cards!
Destiny/Drama split = no good hand/pool cards end up being flipped for initiative.
Simplified Wound Chart
3 successes instead of 5
Simplified reconnects that can be memorized instead of looking at a chart and bonus for item.
Orrorsh bulletsmithing and alchemy
Living Land edeinos perks
limiting/simplifying reality so it isn't the BFG.

But for a game that was said to be streamlined, there is a lot of crunch added.
Weapon modifiers like fragile, small, stagger, unwieldy.
Breaking one-on-many chart up into multi-action and multi-target.
Stymied, very stymied, vulnerable, very vunderable (4) vs Unskilled and Stymied of OT (2)
chart of 28 combat options (full page) vs 17 (index card).

Spells/Miracles/Pulp Powers/Martial Arts all got limited

I have two groups currently running (1 regular and one not) I can see easily converting:
Aysle Barbarian
Aysle Knight
Core Earth Smuggler
Cyberpapal Spy
Old Professor (Nile)
Gadget Hero (these last two were "Flight/Electro-ray" so it would work easy)

Needs some adjustment:
Sacellum Priest/Werewolf

Major Overhaul needed:
Tharkoldu Mage (Six 3-point packages and magic spell reduction)
Rarau Block Agent (knowing a martial art form to 3 Ki Choices)
Nile Priestess (big reduction in miracles)
Amazon (from 6 points of super attributes down to 1)

So I am currently trying to decide to jump feet first into TE, or convert some of the things I like and keep the core OT.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

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Kamelion
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Re: Using Torg Eternity to improve original Torg

Postby Kamelion » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:45 am

ZorValachan, thanks - exactly the sort of ideas I'm after :). I have two groups - one that will be Torg Eternity from the outset, and my current original Torg game, which I can't make my mind up about. I'm leaning towards converting it over wholesale - essentially using Eternity rules with the original setting - but the players have spent the last few months learning original Torg, so may not be keen to learn a new ruleset. I think the two systems are close enough for it to be OK, but I'm examining less disruptive options just to cover all the bases.

My original Torg group consists of:
Rocket Ranger
Viking
Elven Dragonrider
New York Cop
Spartan
Covert Operative.

Obviously, the last three and the Viking are easy to convert, barring a couple of pieces of equipment that I can figure out. For the Rocket Ranger, it might be cool to devise a Perk set like for the electric samurai (or wait for the cosm book, lol). The elf's dragon has been background colour so far, but we've established it's small, so there could be a Perk set for that too.

Thanks again :)
The name that can be named is not the true name.


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