Damage and glory

silo267
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Damage and glory

Postby silo267 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:16 pm

Hello I have run about 2 sessions at this point, going slowly as everyone learns the new system/ their characters. and a question popped up that I wanted some input from other in.

So the players were fighting a triceratops in the living land, and I used a triceratops stated from the day one adventure book with its 19 toughness. So one of the players threw a Living land Spear (strength +2) at it. and he rolled a 20, and played a hero and long story short he was able to get a glory card off on the triceratops with a way beyond outstanding total against the triceratops dodge, it was a 63 total against the triceratop's dodge. so his damage was 14, plus 2 bonus die, for a total of 19, so he ended up dealing 2 shock..... with a glory. it ended up being kind of a meh even when anytime a glory happens it should be awesome for the players.

I'm just wondering if I'm calculating something wrong, or if there's a rule I'm missing. because it seems like, with damage being fixed values, it makes it really hard to actually deal damage to tougher enemies like a triceratops, even with an amazing total. for example if he hadn't gloried, or at least gotten an outstanding result he would have dealt 1 shock, and with most basic guns no effect.

TL;DR- glory happened, didn't feel like glory happened. it seems like there needs to be a way to add more bonus die for totals that end up being way more than 10+.

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jhosmer1
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby jhosmer1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:18 am

The rules are working as designed, but I agree that was not satisfying.

My solution is to treat a Glory as a Player's Call and negotiate a suitable result. Make it awesome.

I also remove 3 of the 4 Glory Cards from the deck, but that's just my personal choice to keep them rare and special

silo267
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby silo267 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:24 am

I'm debating between players call and possibly adding a bonus die for every 10 points over an outstanding result. my problem with players call as a way of resolving it is I would still like it to be based off of the defending things toughness, where as players call is more of an interaction based result, for example, they ended up getting a huge intimidate test on the trike a few rounds later and the player opted for having it turn round and run, trampling the last edeinos on its way away from the combat, because it was very vulnerable.

on the same token my problem with adding a bonus die for every 10 over wouldn't ensure damage as they could just as easily flub those rolls and only add 1 damage.

its something I'm going to have to house rules because an action that causes 2 player characters and 2 NPCs to spark should have a cooler result than, "the spear sticks into the side of the triceratops legs, it takes 2 shock"

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DerHuthmacher
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Location: Ruhr area; Germany

Re: Damage and glory

Postby DerHuthmacher » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:56 am

Now this might be somewhat unorthodox, but maybe you and your player work out something out of this and leave the dice alone.
It was a glory, after all. I'd describe something I'd think of as appropriate and look if the player agrees or wants to modify it.

"Anne valiantly stabs the spear at the stampeding beast, beyond hope that the feeble weapon might actually do some harm against the tough hide of the primeval behemoth. Her eyes widen in both terror and astonishment when she realizes the sharp point actually breaks through the Triceratops' leathery skin. Anne puts all of her strength into this attack, pushing with strength fuelled by adrenaline and endorphin, despite her actual exhaustion.
Blood gushes from the wound and she and her comrades register that it's way too much, there's blood spraying everywhere, it's on Anne's hands, on her shirt, in her face. The beast roars and thrashes, but still Anne holds onto that weapon as if her life depends on it, though she realizes the fight has left the dinosaur. It's mortally wounded, she somehow managed to pierce the carotid or whatever it is called. These are fleeting thoughts, not even real thoughts at all going through her head at this moment. The dinosaur falls to the ground, shaking the earth, something they all feel. Anne's throat feels raw and only when she hits the ground, too - fatigue her body suddenly allows - she know she screamed all the time at the beast. She looks into it's hand-sized eye and sees it actually break and then she feels tears running from her eyes, though wether they come from mourning the death of such a magnificent animal or from relief she will be alive to see another dawn, even she cannot tell."
---
Hell is where the heart is.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Gargoyle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:32 am

jhosmer1 wrote:The rules are working as designed, but I agree that was not satisfying.

My solution is to treat a Glory as a Player's Call and negotiate a suitable result. Make it awesome.



This, but I'm going to do Player's calls for all Outstanding attack results. Just like an interaction skill, that would have defeated any ord, which I feel is appropriate, or if it was reality rated, would have done something like blinded it in one eye. For a glory I go a little further, and allow it to defeat a reality rated character. I may also end up removing a glory or two from the deck, not sure yet, going to let it go for now. I try not to do a lot of house rules, but the lack of impact on many Outstanding attacks has made this one of my few.
"That old chestnut?"

James Garr

Padre
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Padre » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:32 am

I ran into the same thing in one of my test runs of the Aysle Day One adventure. I had one of the characters roll a 20, 10, 20 and use a possibility to roll over 60 against the big bad guy in the first scene. However, the short bow she was using was barely going to scratch it. I was planning on giving a wound on top of the normal roll, but a players call is better, I think.

ZorValachan
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:49 am

2 thoughts.

1) the 'official' statement is that the Glory doesn't have to be the specific action. The action can lead to the scene being glorious. That 2 points, might have shown/inspired the group that the triceratops could be hurt, leading to it's defeat.

2) This complaint is a direct result of 'fixing' the GJN 'problem'. I wonder how many people hated the GJN deaths and now hate the 2 bonus dice rolling a 2. In OTorg, you rolled a 60, you knew you were getting a great bonus #. In TE, it's luck. Like in old D&D, when you crit, but roll a 1 and got 2 for your double damage. Then in 3E you had to verify the crit. Might want to just do a simple 4E and make the Bonus dice a minimum if +10 (Max without explosions)

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Gargoyle
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Gargoyle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:10 pm

ZorValachan wrote:2 thoughts.

1) the 'official' statement is that the Glory doesn't have to be the specific action. The action can lead to the scene being glorious. That 2 points, might have shown/inspired the group that the triceratops could be hurt, leading to it's defeat.

2) This complaint is a direct result of 'fixing' the GJN 'problem'. I wonder how many people hated the GJN deaths and now hate the 2 bonus dice rolling a 2. In OTorg, you rolled a 60, you knew you were getting a great bonus #. In TE, it's luck. Like in old D&D, when you crit, but roll a 1 and got 2 for your double damage. Then in 3E you had to verify the crit. Might want to just do a simple 4E and make the Bonus dice a minimum if +10 (Max without explosions)


1) The problem really isn't the Glory, it's any Outstanding result in combat being lame. I find it weird that you can instantly defeat any ord with an Outstanding result with a taunt, but not with a laser pistol. That's why I'm house ruling in a player's call. "Inglorious Glories" are a separate issue, if one considers them a problem at all. I sort of don't like them, but I can deal with the official ruling on the entire scene being glorious even though it was on something like a "Find" roll or an attack that only did two shock.
2) True. A lot of people never really experienced the GJN problem, because of a couple of things: One their GM's fudge die rolls, and two, they didn't play ninjas. :) But for those of us that don't fudge die rolls,character deaths did happen because of it, and it was very frustrating. And yeah, maybe I should have fudged a couple of die rolls because of it, in hindsight. But while the GJN problem was potentially severe, you're right about the frequency. There just weren't that many people complaining about it because of GM's just adjusting the damage or modifying encounters so the heavy hitters weren't targeting the ninjas in the first place, or the lack of such characters. Was it a bad design decision to do it the way they did it? Well, I am implementing a player's call house rule so I guess so; I'm loathe to house rule things like that. Over time they're going to roll double sixes as often as snake eyes though for outstanding damage, so there is that logic to it, but RNG is a b****.
"That old chestnut?"

James Garr

ZorValachan
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:54 pm

Also remember that Glories give all characters 1 possibilty and a card, and increase hand size+1 for that act plus the entire next act. Thats a lot of goodies, even if your damage was low.

Ive wary of adding the player's calls. NPCs should be some challange, otherwise just say, you defeated the shocktrooper squad snd move on. In OT they were 15 result points, now in TE they are 10. If i was going to change anything i would either add a die for each 5 over or go back to OT using the same damage bonus as the hit bonus. a couple perks would need tweaks. Just be aware that the players will now complain when they get hit big.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Gargoyle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:23 pm

ZorValachan wrote:Also remember that Glories give all characters 1 possibilty and a card, and increase hand size+1 for that act plus the entire next act. Thats a lot of goodies, even if your damage was low.

Ive wary of adding the player's calls. NPCs should be some challange, otherwise just say, you defeated the shocktrooper squad snd move on. In OT they were 15 result points, now in TE they are 10. If i was going to change anything i would either add a die for each 5 over or go back to OT using the same damage bonus as the hit bonus. a couple perks would need tweaks. Just be aware that the players will now complain when they get hit big.

This is why I like the player's call. NPC's don't get them for Outstanding results.
"That old chestnut?"

James Garr


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