Damage and glory

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Gargoyle
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:00 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
Gargoyle wrote:
This is how I have them do rolls for hit points in D&D; some of them always roll, some always take the average, but while there is sometimes disappointment, there is no whining. :) I think one of the best things about TorgE is the choices players have and this would give them another interesting choice, and this isn't a buff to damage, so this appeals to me. It does sort of screw Trademark Weapon though, which I liked. Maybe they could choose an "average" of 5 instead of rolling and still reroll 1's, but that seems too good. Has anyone calculated the actual average of Trademark Weapon?


If a player is picking Trademark Weapon, she is saying she is okay with rolling.


True, but there are rare times due to transparency that it puts them at a disadvantage. Probably not enough to matter though.
Last edited by Gargoyle on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:01 pm

Wotan wrote:
Kuildeous wrote:To my knowledge, there isn't a specific name for people and creatures with only 1 Wound, but I would classify them as the type who are easily dispatched with Player's Calls. I suppose "mook" is descriptive enough.

So the edeinos warriors with a single Wound? Can totally be Tricked into quicksand forever. The dinosaur with 2 or 3 Wounds? Lose an action instead.

I pretty much agree, though I'd tend to make the call on whether a NPC is significant/important (P115 uses both terms) based on their narrative role as well as on how tough their stat block is, e.g. I'd be far more inclined to allow a dinosaur which appears due to the "Dino Attack" card to be defeated by a Player's Call, than I would a dinosaur which is meant to be a significant plot obstacle.


I'd do it if the dino had 1 Wound left...as a finishing blow.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 pm

jhosmer1 wrote:I, too, will offer the option of average results on BD. The choice stops any whining about the results. I may go with 3 as my average, though, to make risking the rolls a little more desirable.


I think having the average be 3 is a good way to mitigate the advantage players have by having this choice. That means that choosing to roll gives them only a 1/3 chance of rolling worse. So if they know their base damage is 2 above the toughness, then this is a no-brainer against mooks on a Good result. If you set the freebie value to 4, then that means that they have a 50% chance of making it worse. That difference of 1 can be important. It also means that you can give TMW characters an edge by adding 1 to their freebie value, though I like the idea of requiring dice rolling to truly benefit from TMW. With a freebie value of 3, a TMW player has a 2/9 chance (1/6 + 1/6 * 1/3) of rolling poorly on each die.

I'll be running the Tharkold Day One tonight. I may ask the players to keep track of their bonus dice and see how they feel about the RAW. I'm not opposed to giving them an edge, but it's an edge I cannot take lightly. That advantage (even at 3) is significant, and I might see a need to challenge them by increasing the enemies' Toughness, defense values, or quantity.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:24 pm

I'd give them the option ala 13th Age, but force them to have that option all the time. You don't like the occasional bad roll? That's okay, but the cost of that is that you don't get the really awesome rolls either.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:21 pm

TorgHacker wrote:I'd give them the option ala 13th Age, but force them to have that option all the time. You don't like the occasional bad roll? That's okay, but the cost of that is that you don't get the really awesome rolls either.


I suppose one could house rule that you apply the average of 4 on each BD during Standard scenes while you have to roll in Dramatic scenes. But I don't like that idea. For one, it does nothing to address the snake eyes issue when facing a tough foe.

But yeah, probability is a big deal. As you said, there's a 3% chance of snake eyes. There's a 28% chance of rolling under 6 on 2BD. I'm still inclined to keep it random and let the dice fall where they may. Just keep in mind that Coup de Grace is one of the most powerful cards out there and spend it wisely.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Spatula » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:01 pm

Kuildeous wrote:To my knowledge, there isn't a specific name for people and creatures with only 1 Wound

The creature chapter calls them Elites.

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Re: Damage and glory

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:46 pm

Wotan wrote:
The two effects combined can be a big leveller vs tough opponents, especially for PCs who are expecting to be able to exceed the DN for an Outstanding attack by more than 4 (or 6 for a small vulnerable spot.) I guess you're not meant to apply the large creature attack bonuses to Vital Blows against them, but there are plenty of ways for the party to improve attacks even without resorting to cards &/or possibilities (aiming, bursts, other PCs using Interaction to make the target (very) vulnerable, etc.)



Actually Large/Very Large bonuses apply when doing Called Shots to large creatures. Your target is the size of a Very Large soccer ball. :-)
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby MalicWanderer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:16 pm

Gargoyle wrote:Has anyone calculated the actual average of Trademark Weapon?

I went ahead and put together an Anydice script for Bonus Dice, including trademark weapon. The averages work out to 4 for regular bonus dice and 4.62 with Trademark Weapon.

If anyone's interested in the script you can check it out here: http://anydice.com/program/cdac. Incidentally, I just built it on top of my existing script for the normal eternity dice (including bonus chart) so there's that as well if anyone's interested.

Kuildeous wrote:My probability-fu is pretty weak nowadays, but my Excel-fu is pretty good. I whipped up a simulation using Excel's random numbers (not as good as unbiased dice, but they'll do).

Sorry to nitpick but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... Excel's PRNG is probably less biased than physical dice. I'd only expect everyday physical randomness to come close to a good PRNG algorithm if you're using casino-grade machined dice.

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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Rabbitball » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:31 pm

Gargoyle wrote:
Kuildeous wrote:I suppose we could take another page from 13th Age and offer the opportunity to take the average.

So for each bonus die that you earn, you can either roll the die or take the average of 4. An Outstanding hit could be Damage + 8. If you get an Outstanding success with a Relentless attack while invoking the Law of Savagery and spending three Coup de Grace cards, then you could roll seven bonus dice or just add 28 to your damage or even a combination of them.

The certainty of the average combined with the transparency of the game will be advantageous for the players. If your weapon does 12 damage, and you know the villain has a 15 Toughness, you are better off taking the average of one bonus die than risk rolling it. If the villain has a 19 Toughness, then shoot for the moon!

Players are less likely to be disappointed if they make the choice. Well, they'll still be disappointed, but they chose the risky route. You might get +13 on one die, or you might get +1.


This is how I have them do rolls for hit points in D&D; some of them always roll, some always take the average, but while there is sometimes disappointment, there is no whining. :) I think one of the best things about TorgE is the choices players have and this would give them another interesting choice, and this isn't a buff to damage, so this appeals to me. It does sort of screw Trademark Weapon though, which I liked. Maybe they could choose an "average" of 5 instead of rolling and still reroll 1's, but that seems too good. Has anyone calculated the actual average of Trademark Weapon?


It's in this post: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1355&p=11558&hilit=134%2F29#p11558 And the 4.62 is accurate, although I may not have written it properly there.
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Re: Damage and glory

Postby Impra » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:15 am

As i am a doctor not a calculator we have tried this house rule to make those big hits less frustrating

We call a cinematic succes +15 over DN and the attack BD will become favored and if a dice explodes it will stay on the table and a new one is thrown to also have the favored roll.

this way the players are not feeling cheated of a good succes but fate is still affecting the damage.


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