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Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:51 pm
by CosmRaider1
I am wondering if anyone else is feeling a distinct "lag" in player turns due to the number of multi actions they can do, cards that can be played and ultimately possibilities being spent. and with counter actions from the attack or enemy?

As my table has expanded this flow of the game has become quite slow as has the immensity of the PC's hands of cards which create tons of opportunities for additional delays. While a long time Torg fan, the newest version is definitely "slower" in turns than the previous version and I am wondering if anyone has suggestions to better facilitate flow with changes to maybe initiative, turns or other options outside of just limiting cards.

Thoughts?

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:15 pm
by Kuildeous
It may feel that way with new players.

But it seems that TorgE combats take fewer turns, so maybe it evens out.

Man, I remember a fight taking two gaming sessions in oTorg. I would be tempted to gouge my eyes out if that happens in TorgE.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:45 pm
by fougerec
I haven't noticed any noticeable lag, turns are pretty speedy (we have four players) and the players know the penalties etc. so even when the Monster Hunter decides to shoot 6 targets there's not a lot of time spend calculating things.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:00 pm
by Gargoyle
In oTorg, it was suggested in the rules that a DSR last about 14 rounds. In TorgE, standard length is 5. I feel like I get as much play time in with both systems, though, so maybe in oTorg we went through it a bit quicker, but that was decades ago and we knew the system really well.

I think TorgE plays fast enough overall, maybe slightly slower with bonus dice and transparency giving players more information to process, but with the game being new, and with experienced GMs and players relearning minor changes, it can also be slow due to the learning curve. I think as we get better at the system it will be snappier and since it takes fewer rounds to resolve combat it will be fine.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:09 pm
by Kuildeous
Gargoyle wrote:and transparency giving players more information to process


That may well be a huge factor. Without transparency, the players just hope for the best and are told the success or failure. It made spending Possibilities and cards a gamble because you might take that risk and get nothing out of it.

But with transparency, players do have more to contemplate. If you know the Dodge score is 12, and you rolled a 20, then you know that you're close to Outstanding, so you wheel and deal with other players to get the right card. Without transparency, you probably would stick with the 20 and see what happens.

One thing that I forgot about is that in oTorg, multi-targeting involved increasing tiers of TOU increases, and the DNs also increased. The multi-target penalty is smoother in TorgE, so it shouldn't be too difficult to calculate unless you target different types of foes.

Oh, and shared Shock makes fighting mooks so much faster. If you hit five of them for 2 shock apiece, then you probably drop one automatically (though the -8 probably kept you from doing more damage, so targeting two at -2 may have been a better option). No more tracking individual Shock among mooks.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:57 pm
by Atama
Our first few sessions had slow combat but now that we’re used to the system they seem to go pretty quickly. Having to look stuff up to resolve a rules situation is the biggest delay but we have to do that less often.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:12 am
by Kamelion
I haven't noticed the bonus die or transparency slowing things down too much in our Eternity game - a little, perhaps, but it's fun to roll dice and watch for the open-ended roll, so that's not a huge problem. Group size seems to me to have a far larger impact on play speed than anything else. In our oTorg game, we use full transparency alongside some rules imported from Eternity (the simplified combat chart and shared Shock for mooks are the main ones that affect speed of play) and that game runs super-fast.

Regarding play slowing down when players get into swapping cards and spending points in order to achieve that Players Call result or whatever, oTorg had some great advice:

"One of our gamemasters has clocked the time spent setting up a single player's Big Attack as just over four minutes of extended card-trading! During this time, he had nothing to do except sit there and watch the players argue.

What should you do to speed the players up?

Nothing.

This is fun."

It's so true. The players love this - you can see them getting all energised and excited when they realise that they're going to reach the target total or score a Glory result or whatever. What seems like dead time to the GM may not feel like that at all to the players.

The advice adds:

"You should spend that dead time embellishing later scenes in your adventure or scarfing up the nacho chips."

Some advice remains solid, even decades later... ;)

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:51 pm
by Wotan
One comment which I've had from all my players, independently, is that in TorgE it feels like the combats (& the game in general) moves a lot faster, & is a lot more absorbing, than our previous games (10 years of Exalted 1st Ed, followed by 1+years of Exalted 3rd Ed.)

There's still a bit of faffing while the players decide on their plans for each round, but the feedback I'm getting is that it's mostly engaging & that the game mostly isn't dragging for them.
Granted I think it helps that when they spent too long planning at one point, during the LL day 1, I dropped a T-Rex ambush on them.
We're playing PP at the moment & they're maybe starting to think too much again. I'll give them some latitude cos it's a dangerous adventure & they feel fragile, but if the procrastination continues once we're on to Tharkold I think it'll be time to give them another "nudge". :twisted:

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:38 am
by Ayaron
Wotan wrote:One comment which I've had from all my players, independently, is that in TorgE it feels like the combats (& the game in general) moves a lot faster, & is a lot more absorbing, than our previous games (10 years of Exalted 1st Ed, followed by 1+years of Exalted 3rd Ed.)

There's still a bit of faffing while the players decide on their plans for each round, but the feedback I'm getting is that it's mostly engaging & that the game mostly isn't dragging for them.
Granted I think it helps that when they spent too long planning at one point, during the LL day 1, I dropped a T-Rex ambush on them.
We're playing PP at the moment & they're maybe starting to think too much again. I'll give them some latitude cos it's a dangerous adventure & they feel fragile, but if the procrastination continues once we're on to Tharkold I think it'll be time to give them another "nudge". :twisted:


I plan to try to get the flavour of each realm across not only in the setting and the encounters but also in the style of play I'll encourage/enforce.

PP is all about plans and intrigue. Let them scheme and scout and prepare. Just remember the Law of Intrigue means plans do not remain secret for long. And the enemy are being just as sneaky.

Now if they try to be subtle in Tharkold then they'll find enemies just smash through the wall and start attacking, trampling their planning table with it's maps and lists underfoot.

Re: Game Speed

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:36 pm
by bobrossw
I feel like maybe 30 minutes in my last session was taken up by players either disagreeing who should go next (you go next, no please, you go next...), or just staring into space while everyone else confirms that they've gone. Maybe some visual aids would be helpful (like a card that gets flipped front to back in front of each player to indicate whether they've gone or not).