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Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:21 pm
by Staffan
TorgHacker wrote:
Gargoyle wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:Yeah, it's anywhere in the stelae network. I suspect that was the original text and then we removed the restriction of having to be X km from a stela.


What is the point exactly of a DD creating a hardpoint inside the realm? I could see some very limited usefulness in a mixed zone, but it's way more useful to be able to create them outside the realm for things like the hardpoints we saw in the Destiny Map and Possibility Chalice. I'm going to ignore this restriction. They should be able to create one anywhere, perhaps they need a stormer connected to their reality to be there, or something, but I don't understand this limitation.


You're absolutely correct. It's bizarre...and after talking to Darrell, DDs can create hardpoints anywhere.

A reasonable way of doing it would be to have a DD prepare a hardpoint inside the realm, which then has to be transported outside and activated by a stormer of the DD's reality. Otherwise, what's stopping them from just plopping them down anywhere?

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:16 pm
by Wakshani
Hardpoints don't move tho.

So, there'd need to be a range outside a bounded realm? Like up to 500 KM from a stelae? I'm not sure.

That's a new ability and I'm not at all sure how it's supposed to be used. If they can make them at a distance, then making Talismans isn't a big deal.

On the other hand, if they can only make them inside their own territory, it's just for emergency support.

Hrm.

Super-weird.

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:16 pm
by Gargoyle
Staffan wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Gargoyle wrote:
What is the point exactly of a DD creating a hardpoint inside the realm? I could see some very limited usefulness in a mixed zone, but it's way more useful to be able to create them outside the realm for things like the hardpoints we saw in the Destiny Map and Possibility Chalice. I'm going to ignore this restriction. They should be able to create one anywhere, perhaps they need a stormer connected to their reality to be there, or something, but I don't understand this limitation.


You're absolutely correct. It's bizarre...and after talking to Darrell, DDs can create hardpoints anywhere.

A reasonable way of doing it would be to have a DD prepare a hardpoint inside the realm, which then has to be transported outside and activated by a stormer of the DD's reality. Otherwise, what's stopping them from just plopping them down anywhere?


Expenditure of possibility energy and the limitation of once per week. But the thing is, the rules on what a Darkness Device can and can't do are pointless anyway. This is a plot device and GM's can put them anywhere they want and whenever they need them. This isn't a player character ability where you need to put the goalposts down and be fair not to move them. I think the way to look at these "rules" is that their purpose is to give GM's ideas on stuff to do to help create adventures and when you feel limited by them, don't.

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:46 am
by Kuildeous
Staffan wrote:Otherwise, what's stopping them from just plopping them down anywhere?


The same thing that's stopping them from putting a hover tank on every corner: Resources. It breaks suspension of disbelief if the High Lords have infinite resources, so there are some restrictions that GMs can rule.

And they're all plot-driven. The story demands that an Aysle wizard is conducting a hugely elaborate ritual outside Denver. Boom, hardpoint/talisman. Cyberpapal agents are scouting out Brazil. Boom, hardpoint/talisman. There should be a good reason for Darkness Devices to create these things. And it also makes the players feel more useful when they realize that disrupting the Tharkold hardpoint or the Orrorsh Nightmare Tree deals a nasty blow to the High Lords.

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:54 am
by utsukushi
Wakshani wrote:Hardpoints don't move tho.

That's a new ability and I'm not at all sure how it's supposed to be used. If they can make them at a distance, then making Talismans isn't a big deal.

That immobility is a definite important difference between a hardpoint, even one that can be made literally anywhere, and a talisman, though. They say "the size of a small house", which seems awfully subjective but it looks like maybe... 1200 square feet? So in terms of sending your people out to do something, that's pretty limited. You have to know exactly where it's taking place, and your people have to get there without Transforming on the way, and even then they'll only have a small area where they can really act freely. And it's useless for conquest, since it would take about two million years, if I did that right, to actually convert just the habitable land on Earth at that rate.

So yeah, for some things, a 1200 square foot area is going to be a much bigger deal than the much shorter range of a Talisman, but if you don't know exactly where your target is, or it's something that can move itself, a Talisman would work a whole lot better.

...But strategically, if you think too hard about this, it gets pretty boggling. Dimthreads aren't much better. I think these are places where you definitely have to keep in mind that it's a game, and one that specifically follows movie logic, so it's OK not to get too realistic about it and use them, as Kuildeous says, as pure plot elements. In the background, it's a good reason for why the Delphi Council leaders have to be both mobile and kind of secretive. In the foreground, it sets up adventure seeds like a top-secret lab that has suddenly become something else and needs valuable data recovered, or, of course, an easy way to throw in elements of an unexpected Reality to an adventure, like a PP Hardpoint in Aysle.

Also makes for a cool scene idea once the players have caught the High Lord's attention a bit - maybe after having uprooted a couple Stelae. They wake up one morning to find that their home has been converted, quite possibly to a reality that just happens to cut off their phones, alarms, and whatnot... and oh look! Here are agents of that reality Dimthreading in to murder them now! Orange juice, anyone?

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:50 pm
by Greymarch2000
Probably a good precursor to planting down a Nightmare Tree.

Re: Darkness Device created Hardpoints

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:15 pm
by utsukushi
I don't know... like a hardpoint in an already-converted zone, a Nightmare Tree in a hardpoint seems redundant unless you're going for a very specific effect.

Though I guess redundancy has its uses. Like, I'm totally not dissing my second kidney. The Gaunt Man might do it just for the look on the Knights' faces when they destroy the Tree and find out they're still in Orrorsh.