Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

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Spatula
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Spatula » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:13 pm

Regarding the magic chapter, Invisibility is listed as one of the Pulp Sorcerer spells, but is way above the Nile Empire's Magic Axiom (17 for the spell vs. 14 for the cosm).

Contemplation is a little confusing. The casting time is 1 minute but there's a prep time of 1 hour and it can be cast once per scene until the next sunrise. I take that to mean the prep time is good until sunrise and that the spell can be cast (at 1 minute per casting) at most once per scene in that time frame. It doesn't look so confusing when laid out like that, but the text scatters the info around in what I found to be a strange way.

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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Kanaris » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:21 am

Congratulations, Deanna, the Nile sourcebook is a tour de force! The right balance between background and guide to play for players and DMs. A lot of research has clearly gone in to it. I especially like the trap rules and the reworking of mathematics and engineering to fit the TorgE paradigm. Much as I like the brilliance of some of the subsystems of TorgO (magic vs psionics vs faith etc and then allowing for variations per reality), they did not fit together very well, and I feel that that is one of the best things USNA has done for the new game.

A couple of questions:

1. the pulp sorceror's text suggests lightning should be part of the selection, but it not part of the pulp sorceror's list. Is this because the Nile Empire Sorceror list from the core rules includes that spell and others from the main rules?

2. Major Egyptian gods such as Osiris, Isis, Thoth and Ptah are not part of the Nile Ennead. Does this suggest some division between Egyptian deities in Core Earth vs Nile Empire allegiance in TorgE as was the case in the Greek Olympic pantheon in OTorg?

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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby utsukushi » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:50 am

Thanks!

I have to admit, I find it a little weird that the Pulp Sorcerers, who are exceptionally flashy except for their Illusions, have a spell list that is pretty much all illusions. (Except for Blue Bands of Bastet, which sounds absolutely intended to be shouted out.) And the only way to get access to illusions is to join the spellcasting tradition that requires you not to be sneaky. I'm not sure I don't like it, but it's weird. And you have to have Spellcaster first, so that means already having three spells not from the Pulp Sorcery list, right? So you can't just make yourself a pure Illusionist.


On a minor but more practical note, in the Images of Isis, second paragraph, there's, I think, an extra "and" that is confusing. "If an enemy makes a physical attack, and the attack randomly strikes one of the illusions or the caster." I think it makes sense without the `and' - either that, or there was supposed to be more at the end. ...As an aside, does the `physical attack' piece of that mean that, for example, spells ignore the images?


Kanaris wrote:2. Major Egyptian gods such as Osiris, Isis, Thoth and Ptah are not part of the Nile Ennead. Does this suggest some division between Egyptian deities in Core Earth vs Nile Empire allegiance in TorgE as was the case in the Greek Olympic pantheon in OTorg?

*takes a long step away from Kanaris*

...Um, have you, by chance, gotten to the, `The Pharaoh Is Always Right' section on p43? Just out of.. curiosity. I have urgent business over here, I'm afraid. It was lovely knowing you, though!

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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Kanaris » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:55 am

utsukushi wrote:...Um, have you, by chance, gotten to the, `The Pharaoh Is Always Right' section on p43? Just out of.. curiosity. I have urgent business over here, I'm afraid. It was lovely knowing you, though!


<blithely ignoring the creaking sounds under his feat> I did indeed :lol: On page 42, it is noted that Osiris is "conspicuous by his complete absence" and Isis is hardly less so. The OTorg Sourcebook had Osiris, Isis and Ptah as part of the Ennead and the omission of Osiris is again emphasised on p 43. I cannot help but feel the change, including the retconning by the High Lord, will play a part of the meta-plot.

Hey? Why are all you guys backing away like that?!

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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby pkitty » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:04 am

(Disclaimer: I'm only about halfway through the book.)

I find mummies a bit confusing as regards play balance. The LL book added Poison Tolerance as a perk to help you resist poison -- or I could just start with the Mummy perk (I was resurrected in my backstory) to be completely immune to poison, and suffocation, and even Fatigue? With absolutely zero downsides?

Similarly, the Recall Spirit miracle seems to grant far more on a Good success than on an Outstanding one. On a Good success, the subject gets resurrected with all of the benefits (the amazing Mummy perk) with no drawbacks. But on an Outstanding success, they get resurrected with no changes.

Is there some drawback to being a mummy that I just haven't read yet? And if so, why is it not be mentioned up front in the Mummy perk itself?
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:20 am

The major price is that you have to pay for it with a perk slot. If you've been saving up for something, then getting killed can put a crimp in your plans. Not to mention that all future perks now cost 2 XP extra.

This is one of those perks that I view should not be generally allowed at the beginning of a campaign. Of course, not all GMs would agree with me on that, which may be why the book doesn't say that this is not a starting perk. I kind of wish it did, since experienced GMs can choose to ignore that, which is a better situation than an inexperienced GM letting it happen since the book doesn't say not to.

So I envision this perk as being quite rare, if it has those safeguards in place: you must be killed, you must have the ritual performed, and you must pay for the perk. If it's free to take during backstory or off-screen, then it is a pretty nice perk.

I asked one my players if he wanted to test this perk out. They were in Nile, and he had to miss a session. I had his character killed as part of a narrative and then brought back with the intent of siccing him on his friends. But he had free will, and they all escaped together. I used that method for testing purposes only; I would not encourage it in a normal game. Kill them proper during the game and then offer the chance if they have the connections.
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:22 am

pkitty wrote:(Disclaimer: I'm only about halfway through the book.)

I find mummies a bit confusing as regards play balance. The LL book added Poison Tolerance as a perk to help you resist poison -- or I could just start with the Mummy perk (I was resurrected in my backstory) to be completely immune to poison, and suffocation, and even Fatigue? With absolutely zero downsides?

Similarly, the Recall Spirit miracle seems to grant far more on a Good success than on an Outstanding one. On a Good success, the subject gets resurrected with all of the benefits (the amazing Mummy perk) with no drawbacks. But on an Outstanding success, they get resurrected with no changes.

Is there some drawback to being a mummy that I just haven't read yet? And if so, why is it not be mentioned up front in the Mummy perk itself?


Well you do have to die, that's sort of a bummer. I don't think this was a perk that was intended to be shopped for, more that it's another way to bring back a character in the Nile Empire when the usual methods don't feel right. (Like when you take a bullet between the eyes for instance).

But you still have a point; players can easily make the case that they died in their background. One thing I wonder about though, it's not in the RAW, but is it RAI for them to be treated as undead and therefore count as Supernatural Evil? Part of me says no, a Storm Knight mummy isn't evil, but it does have precedence is anti-hero stories...the good vampire who is still affected by crosses (Ward Enemy) etc, and I think it would be cool and balance it out a little, so I'd probably say yes.
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:36 am

Kanaris wrote:Congratulations, Deanna, the Nile sourcebook is a tour de force! The right balance between background and guide to play for players and DMs. A lot of research has clearly gone in to it. I especially like the trap rules and the reworking of mathematics and engineering to fit the TorgE paradigm. Much as I like the brilliance of some of the subsystems of TorgO (magic vs psionics vs faith etc and then allowing for variations per reality), they did not fit together very well, and I feel that that is one of the best things USNA has done for the new game.


Thanks you!

A couple of questions:

1. the pulp sorceror's text suggests lightning should be part of the selection, but it not part of the pulp sorceror's list. Is this because the Nile Empire Sorceror list from the core rules includes that spell and others from the main rules?



Correct.



2. Major Egyptian gods such as Osiris, Isis, Thoth and Ptah are not part of the Nile Ennead. Does this suggest some division between Egyptian deities in Core Earth vs Nile Empire allegiance in TorgE as was the case in the Greek Olympic pantheon in OTorg?


Definitely. Some additional detail is in the Book of Osiris Eternity Shard entry.
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:43 am

utsukushi wrote:Thanks!

I have to admit, I find it a little weird that the Pulp Sorcerers, who are exceptionally flashy except for their Illusions, have a spell list that is pretty much all illusions. (Except for Blue Bands of Bastet, which sounds absolutely intended to be shouted out.) And the only way to get access to illusions is to join the spellcasting tradition that requires you not to be sneaky. I'm not sure I don't like it, but it's weird. And you have to have Spellcaster first, so that means already having three spells not from the Pulp Sorcery list, right? So you can't just make yourself a pure Illusionist.



The 'sorcerer' from the Core book _is_ a pulp sorcerer. However, your point about being a pure illusionist is taken, and I may remove the prereq from the Pulp Sorcerer Perk (and add it to the Supreme Sorcery Perk).



On a minor but more practical note, in the Images of Isis, second paragraph, there's, I think, an extra "and" that is confusing. "If an enemy makes a physical attack, and the attack randomly strikes one of the illusions or the caster." I think it makes sense without the `and' - either that, or there was supposed to be more at the end. ...As an aside, does the `physical attack' piece of that mean that, for example, spells ignore the images?



Noted.

I'm going to need to go through the book and make sure all the 'physical attack' stuff makes sense, because up until about a month ago, I'd either forgotten/never realized that physical attacks didn't include magical/spiritual, etc attacks.
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:47 am

pkitty wrote:(Disclaimer: I'm only about halfway through the book.)

I find mummies a bit confusing as regards play balance. The LL book added Poison Tolerance as a perk to help you resist poison -- or I could just start with the Mummy perk (I was resurrected in my backstory) to be completely immune to poison, and suffocation, and even Fatigue? With absolutely zero downsides?

Similarly, the Recall Spirit miracle seems to grant far more on a Good success than on an Outstanding one. On a Good success, the subject gets resurrected with all of the benefits (the amazing Mummy perk) with no drawbacks. But on an Outstanding success, they get resurrected with no changes.

Is there some drawback to being a mummy that I just haven't read yet? And if so, why is it not be mentioned up front in the Mummy perk itself?


You're forced to pay for that Perk in XP.
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