Casting into melee

Sunrunner
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Casting into melee

Postby Sunrunner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:58 pm

So just curious but If you cast a spell/miracle/psionic at a target that is in melee do you have to deal with the firing into melee problems on pg. 123 where if your die total is Odd you hit a random target. Also if you are in melee and cast at some one your engaged with do go against melee / unarmed.

Also does spell type matter. Because you have bullet and lighting bolt that target dodge for example and then you have spells like diminish and wither that target willpower and does that matter.

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Atama
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby Atama » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:23 pm

RAW, if you’re not “firing” into melee it shouldn’t apply. But I’d suggest that any attack which involves the Dodge skill in the DN is subject to the firing into melee rule. It’s simple, unambiguous, and makes logical sense.
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utsukushi
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby utsukushi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:14 am

I don't wholly disagree - the fact that they target Dodge kind of implies that you're physically throwing that out there. But as a player, I very much consider that one of the reasons why you're spending a Perk to get access to those kinds of attacks. Like, Bullet is fine, but I can do the same thing for $300, plus get a Long Burst if I want. Wealthy can get me a Barrett M82 which basically simulates the Lightning Spell, and I'll have another $7,800 of extra gear on top of that.

Also, while I can see it for spells like Bullet, I'm less convinced it makes sense for, say, Pyrokinesis, which isn't really being thrown at someone... Dodging that, I suppose, would mean moving out of the way as soon as you start feeling the heat. Or the Lightning Strike Miracle; I understand why it targets Dodge, but are we saying the Gods have an even chance of targeting your ally?

I know a lot of my feeling about it is shaped by Earthdawn, where spells, even if they manifest physically, are always travelling along a magical `arc' between caster and target, so they either work or they don't, but they never "miss". But even if they are just physically being thrown out there and can indeed just miss, I still think it's just as clear a line to say "Power-based attacks don't have this issue but firearms and missile weapons do" as it is to say "Willpower-targeting attacks don't have this issue but Dodge-targeting ones do."

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Re: Casting into melee

Postby Savioronedge » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:47 am

utsukushi wrote:...
I know a lot of my feeling about it is shaped by Earthdawn, where spells, even if they manifest physically, are always travelling along a magical `arc' between caster and target, so they either work or they don't, but they never "miss". But even if they are just physically being thrown out there and can indeed just miss, I still think it's just as clear a line to say "Power-based attacks don't have this issue but firearms and missile weapons do" as it is to say "Willpower-targeting attacks don't have this issue but Dodge-targeting ones do."


My personal thought is, "GM Call". If my mage flings a Bullet at a target, it is perfectly reasonable that an engaged ally might get in the way. But it just doesn't make sense that a telepathic attack could hit the wrong mind (discounting AoE attacks). I'd say the simpler Apportation and Conjuration/summoning/moving object attacks would be subject to the rule; but Divination Alteration /pure energy Spells/Miracles/Psionics would not.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:13 am

If it targets dodge, it counts.
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mystic101
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby mystic101 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:18 am

TorgHacker wrote:If it targets dodge, it counts.


Which, as I’ve pointed out once before, can lead to the humorous situation of a priest calling upon favorable divine intervention from his or her omnipotent, omniscient deity by praying for a lightning strike, and then God responds . . . by striking one of the priest’s friends.

“Are you telling me that God Almighty MISSED?!? :)

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Count Thalim
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby Count Thalim » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:59 am

mystic101 wrote:“Are you telling me that God Almighty MISSED?!? :)


They just have a wide definition of 'Sinner'...
Per Sanguis Ad Astra

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Gargoyle
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby Gargoyle » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:09 am

mystic101 wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:If it targets dodge, it counts.


Which, as I’ve pointed out once before, can lead to the humorous situation of a priest calling upon favorable divine intervention from his or her omnipotent, omniscient deity by praying for a lightning strike, and then God responds . . . by striking one of the priest’s friends.

“Are you telling me that God Almighty MISSED?!? :)


The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Corner case IMO, that's what GMs are for. :) Going forward though, it's something to consider when designing miracles. One thing that could differentiate them further from spells would be that they don't miss.
"That old chestnut?"

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fougerec
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby fougerec » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:20 am

Gargoyle wrote:
Corner case IMO, that's what GMs are for. :) Going forward though, it's something to consider when designing miracles. One thing that could differentiate them further from spells would be that they don't miss.


They miss when you roll less than Dodge so they logically could miss in the heated exchange of melee. Unless they simply don't miss ever, which seem OP to me.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Casting into melee

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:27 am

mystic101 wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:If it targets dodge, it counts.


Which, as I’ve pointed out once before, can lead to the humorous situation of a priest calling upon favorable divine intervention from his or her omnipotent, omniscient deity by praying for a lightning strike, and then God responds . . . by striking one of the priest’s friends.

“Are you telling me that God Almighty MISSED?!? :)


No. You weren't faithful enough. Try harder. ;)

You can miss if the target was by his lonesome too.

Kidding aside, the priest is using the priest's abilities to determine success, not the deity's.

Plus omnipotence or omniscience is Spirit 26. Both together is Spirit 30.
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