Overlapping miracles, what happens.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:50 pm

Double checked with Darrell. You don't get a replacement.
Deanna Gilbert
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Ulisses North America

Sunrunner
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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby Sunrunner » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:56 pm

Thanks for the check, just curious why you guys decided to short Gotaks a perk ;)

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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:24 pm

Wasn’t there involved in that. :)
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby Atama » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:59 pm

My speculation at first was that the Miracles in the Gotak lists might be more powerful (especially in combat) but looking at them again I don’t think that’s the case. Maybe Gotaks need to be punished for messing with icky dead stuff.
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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby Sunrunner » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:53 am

Well lets get specific because there are two types of Gotaks. There are the Ketta Kales Gotaks and the Rec Stalek Gotacks.

Why do the poor Ketta Kales who are just the keeps of the dead and make sure people are buried correctly and returned to the cycle properly punished? I mean I understand why you punish the Rec Stalek we want to kill EVERYTHING and end the cycle guys.

utsukushi
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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby utsukushi » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:53 am

Sunrunner wrote:Thanks for the check, just curious why you guys decided to short Gotaks a perk ;)

I do think that's a bit overstated. They're shorted a utility spell that essentially lets you use Faith instead of Persuasion for low-level `purchases', and which they have anyway in what looks like the only Cosm it particularly works, relative to the Optant. I say the LL is the only Cosm where Shape Plant really works because it seems heavily reliant on Hrockt; they don't really say it explicitly, but it does say they use hrockt because it's the only plant sturdy enough to `keep a point', so it sounds like anywhere else you can bend plants into, like, the basic shape of a weapon or armor, but you're still just poking someone with a stick and strapping a bunch of leaves to your chest so maybe don't expect too much. (Though it gets a lot of comparisons to bamboo, so probably that, at least? But it still seems like you'd have to go out of your way to find some, while in the LL hrockt is just everywhere. But an Optant can't make a hrockt-shoot spear out of the average potted begonia, and I don't think you're ever expected to be able to turn an oak tree into a 75mm Tank Gun even if you roll the 27 Faith*.)

Anyway, at best they're being `shorted' like... I don't know, honestly. Calling that a tenth of a perk feels a little strong. 5%, maybe?

I think the bigger question is the one we keep asking about Ward Enemy. Since they effectively have it anyway, why do they even list it as a `gained Miracle' for Optants?


*--I would love to be wrong about that, though!

Sunrunner
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Re: Overlapping miracles, what happens.

Postby Sunrunner » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:24 pm

utsukushi your kinda right in direct comparison to the Optant, but then you you have nile hem netjer that gets prophecy which is actually an amazing utility spell. I also think your under estimating shape plants usefulness. You can make lots of handy things like ropes, cloths and other gear outta plants. I also think you can make spears and wood armor, granted might not have the endurance to hroctshoot stuff but if I take a small tree and plant shape a spear out of it, I should be able to stab things with it for a scene at least. And it is a full perk because the gotak is shorted what ever utility he could get from that spell that when hes not in the living lands, and the spell has plenty of use out side of the living lands. And they only way to get that utility is to spend a full perk, my point is its just not worth the perk slot unless I am bound and determined to have it for RP reasons.

Honestly some of the problem comes down to how they do miracle/spell selection. You have your Grade A bang bang spells like Lighting bolt and Curse and such and then you have good utility spells like Enhance and Diminish, and then you have Luxury / corner case spells. They give you so few spell choices and they make additional choices cost so much that pretty much only the Grade A bang bang spells and like 1 maybe 2 of the good utility spells ever get picked. I know I saw Torg Hacker respond to some one else question how you get spells and the response made sense, They dont want everyone to end up with all the spells and all the spell casters to feel the same because they all have the same spells. Personally i think they should have made some spell catagories like combat spell, buff/debuff, and utility spells and then said you get 2 combat/buff spells and 3 utility spells for your intial perk and then you get 1 combat/buff and 1 or maybe 2 utility spells for additional perks. This means you might actually see characters with things like mage light, and other minorly useful utility spells that every spell caster should honestly know anyways because they had to learn them just to get to the point they could cast Lighting bolts and such.

For clarity sake utility spells are spells like mage light, Bounty, Detect magic etc. that have pretty much no viable combat applications except in the most extreme circumstances and only serve to make your characters life easier in non combat situations.


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