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Flame Aura Question

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:52 am
by Sir Awesome
Flame Aura out of the Living Lands miracles says melee attacks do at least 14 dmg.

Is that minimum before or after bonus dice are rolled?

Meaning do my unarmed attacks become str 14 with that miracle so that bonus dice would add to that dmg, or do I role all dmg normally including bonus dice and then if it is below 14 I just do 14 dmg?

Also is the dmg it deals fire dmg(because it doesn't say that, but the description and name would indicate that it would be fire dmg)?

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:17 pm
by TorgHacker
Sir Awesome wrote:Flame Aura out of the Living Lands miracles says melee attacks do at least 14 dmg.

Is that minimum before or after bonus dice are rolled?

Meaning do my unarmed attacks become str 14 with that miracle so that bonus dice would add to that dmg, or do I role all dmg normally including bonus dice and then if it is below 14 I just do 14 dmg?

Also is the dmg it deals fire dmg(because it doesn't say that, but the description and name would indicate that it would be fire dmg)?


The base damage is at least 14.

While on page 136 fire does attack the lowest armor value, that's environmental fire, not fire attacks. While that is a common property of fire attacks, its not universal, and must be specified.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:22 pm
by Spatula
Sir Awesome wrote:Flame Aura out of the Living Lands miracles says melee attacks do at least 14 dmg.

Is that minimum before or after bonus dice are rolled?

That's a good question. My interpretation is that by the way it's worded, it would be after BD and other adjustments. Because it doesn't say "your unarmed attacks do 14 damage," which I would take to be the base damage, but "at least 14 damage." Which sounds to me like it's looking at the total damage. (Ninja'd by Deanna, looks like I'm interpreting it incorrectly!)

Sir Awesome wrote:Also is the dmg it deals fire dmg(because it doesn't say that, but the description and name would indicate that it would be fire dmg)?

Well, there's fire damage and there's Fire damage. "Fire" as a weapon quality has a specific meaning in the game, which is that the attack targets one's lowest armor value, presumably resulting from being completely engulfed in flames from a fireball or a flamethrower. My impression of the miracle's effects on the invoker's unarmed attacks is that they have flaming fists, not that they are enveloping the target in flames by punching them. The miracle doesn't say the attacks have the "Fire" property, so they don't, but yes it's fire (little "f") damage.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:13 pm
by TorgHacker
Spatula wrote:
Sir Awesome wrote:Also is the dmg it deals fire dmg(because it doesn't say that, but the description and name would indicate that it would be fire dmg)?

Well, there's fire damage and there's Fire damage. "Fire" as a weapon quality has a specific meaning in the game, which is that the attack targets one's lowest armor value, presumably resulting from being completely engulfed in flames from a fireball or a flamethrower. My impression of the miracle's effects on the invoker's unarmed attacks is that they have flaming fists, not that they are enveloping the target in flames by punching them. The miracle doesn't say the attacks have the "Fire" property, so they don't, but yes it's fire (little "f") damage.


Technically there's no "Fire" property. Not explicitly anyway. We probably should have it, but there's a philosophy (that I don't fully agree with) that you don't want tons of keywords. That's why we always explicitly say it attacks the lowest armor value.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:31 am
by QuarrelBlue
TorgHacker wrote:Technically there's no "Fire" property. Not explicitly anyway. We probably should have it, but there's a philosophy (that I don't fully agree with) that you don't want tons of keywords. That's why we always explicitly say it attacks the lowest armor value.

So Fire Damage is about Fire-Resistant Armor(like Fireproof Suit and Dragon Scales enchantment for Dragon Armor), and whole body damage which attacks the least-protected armor location(like Kesta Hive) is a different property....
Does that mean Fireball Spell, Pyrokinesis Psychic Power, Hellfire Miracle, Dragon Breath option for Dragon Warrior armor, and the like(which says only "fire damage") have NO "attacks the least-protected armor location" property?

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:03 pm
by utsukushi
I would think that anything with an area effect/blast radius would automatically target the least armor, since those effectively hit everything-in-the-blast. That may actually be the only good thing about a Small Blast effect.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:47 pm
by Atama
QuarrelBlue wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:Technically there's no "Fire" property. Not explicitly anyway. We probably should have it, but there's a philosophy (that I don't fully agree with) that you don't want tons of keywords. That's why we always explicitly say it attacks the lowest armor value.

So Fire Damage is about Fire-Resistant Armor(like Fireproof Suit and Dragon Scales enchantment for Dragon Armor), and whole body damage which attacks the least-protected armor location(like Kesta Hive) is a different property....
Does that mean Fireball Spell, Pyrokinesis Psychic Power, Hellfire Miracle, Dragon Breath option for Dragon Warrior armor, and the like(which says only "fire damage") have NO "attacks the least-protected armor location" property?

Pyrokinesis definitely is written so that it’s a normal ranged attack aside from having no range penalties, so despite doing fire damage it doesn’t bypass armor or automatically hit the least armored part of the body. But it’s not exploding or engulfing someone in flames.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:28 pm
by TorgHacker
QuarrelBlue wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:Technically there's no "Fire" property. Not explicitly anyway. We probably should have it, but there's a philosophy (that I don't fully agree with) that you don't want tons of keywords. That's why we always explicitly say it attacks the lowest armor value.

So Fire Damage is about Fire-Resistant Armor(like Fireproof Suit and Dragon Scales enchantment for Dragon Armor), and whole body damage which attacks the least-protected armor location(like Kesta Hive) is a different property....
Does that mean Fireball Spell, Pyrokinesis Psychic Power, Hellfire Miracle, Dragon Breath option for Dragon Warrior armor, and the like(which says only "fire damage") have NO "attacks the least-protected armor location" property?


This is correct.

This is largely correct. The hellfire miracle doesn't, but the fireball spell does, because while it doesn't explicitly say it attacks the lowest armor, it does link back to Environmental Fire on page 136 of the core rules, which does.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 pm
by TorgHacker
utsukushi wrote:I would think that anything with an area effect/blast radius would automatically target the least armor, since those effectively hit everything-in-the-blast. That may actually be the only good thing about a Small Blast effect.


No.

Admittedly Small Blast is iffy, and situational (i.e. it's mainly a big deal in cramped spaces) But ignoring Multi-Targeting penalties is plenty of an advantage there.

Re: Flame Aura Question

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:34 pm
by coyotegrey
TorgHacker wrote:No.

Admittedly Small Blast is iffy, and situational (i.e. it's mainly a big deal in cramped spaces) But ignoring Multi-Targeting penalties is plenty of an advantage there.


Just to be clear - what does small blast actually do? It doesn't seem to do anything by the rules, but I could very well be missing something.