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How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:50 am
by fougerec
It wasn't an issue for our game with the LL and NE books as I didn't have any existing characters from those cosms to worry about but with the Aysle book on the horizon I have both Miracles and Magic. What I'm looking at is simply allowing the character to swap out the generic perk (Miracles/Spellcaster) for the more specialized one that applies to them along with some changing of spells and miracles. While that is the easiest (we've been playing for almost 30 Acts so asking them buy a new perk is pricey) I'm wondering how other GMs have handled this.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:48 am
by Gargoyle
I let them rework their characters if it makes sense, but my players don't like doing that and would rather keep the continuity strong and just not use them or wait until they can get the new stuff. <shrug>

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:01 am
by fougerec
Gargoyle wrote:I let them rework their characters if it makes sense, but my players don't like doing that and would rather keep the continuity strong and just not use them or wait until they can get the new stuff. <shrug>


In this case it's something like our cleric has been a follower of Dunad since Day One (to the extent that I converted some OTorg miracles to better flavour his abilities) so when the Aysle book comes out it's easier just to swap out and makes sense.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:11 am
by Count Thalim
A certain amount of respecing is fine in my games as long as it makes sense.
We don't have any LL, NE or A characters so it hasn't been an issue, but I fairly easy with it.

I have the advantage that my group is a dramatic troupe, if we had some of our old power gamers I would be a lot more cautious about allowing it period...

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:40 am
by vaminion
If a new book comes out and there's a new perk/race/spell/whatever that better fits your character concept I allow a free rebuild, provided you do it reasonably quickly after you get access to the book. Given the cost scaling for Torg's perks it'd feel too much like a punishment not to.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:52 am
by Kuildeous
Count me in the respec camp. For the most part, I would expect the attributes and skills to remain the same with a little tweaking if prerequisites are in order. I'd certainly allow a full perk swap.

It's not too different from what I would do with a Storm Knight who transforms. Things are different now, and your character should reflect that. Still beats making the player feel like he should martyr at first opportunity to make a character he wants.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to review the changes to make sure that the player isn't abusing your good grace—if that's something you think could be a problem with your player.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 12:50 pm
by Atama
This is the classic “latest book syndrome”. AD&D 2nd Ed was infamous for this. By the time their 30th supplement was released you had player options that practically made their characters into juggernauts at 1st level.

In our campaign I play a LL savage who is a Jakatt. I really want him to be an Optant. He has the standard Miracles Perk already. He’s also human. I could rework him, but chose not to. Instead I have a goal to work toward.

To be an Optant, I have to get the Favored of Lanala Perk that lets me buy Edeinos-only Perks.

My Spirit is only 9, so I want to get the Spirit of Takta Ker Perk which will bump me up to 10 (the requirement to be Favored).

To get that I need more XP and Beta Clearance (both of which I should have in a couple of Acts).

I love it. I can’t just get it, I have to work for it. Instead of just being something I pick from a book, it is something I earn, a journey of self-improvement and dedication. How perfect is that? I love that the meta side of the game follows the in-game story so well. :)

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:30 pm
by fougerec
Right but that's different from something like Nile Engineer which says "The character cannot have any other Spellcraft Perk that grants access to another spell list" which means that having the generic Spellcaster because it's all there was renders the character unable to be an Engineer. Even if that was their original concept.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:45 pm
by utsukushi
From the player's side of things, I think I'm happy enough either way, but I do lean towards wanting to respec, or at least to have that option. I do think they've done very well so far with... well, actually, not exactly avoiding power creep, but acknowledging and incorporating it into the clearance levels. Power creep is a lot less of a problem when it's actually built in for more powerful characters.

I do see Atama's point about having to work for the cool new toys, and there definitely is fun in that. But then again, I'm having a very hard time coming up with a Torg character that I won't have about a dozen different plans for, so if I can fulfill one of those plans now, that doesn't really take that away from me. When the Nile book came out, I had a character that I had built before in a game that was restarting, so I rebuilt her for the new game, and she's... better. Still totally the same concept, but with more options to work from, she fits it better now. On top of which... well, sadly, that game seems to have stalled out again, so I'm hoping to find a chance to try her again, and that might mean using her in another game when one of my current characters, um, goes to that lovely farm in North Dakota, or whatever happens to characters that makes you need a new one. I'm a little fuzzy on that. ...but my point is, when I think about rebuilding her not only with the Nile book but also with a few XPs to start with, I just see the same thing: More options, and yet still plenty to hope for in her future.

Maybe when we start getting up to Gamma Clearance, I'll start feeling like, "Nope, that concept has done everything I wanted." Maybe. But for the foreseeable future, that's just not a concern I have.

Re: How do people handle new, more specialized Perks coming out?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 2:05 pm
by Atama
fougerec wrote:Right but that's different from something like Nile Engineer which says "The character cannot have any other Spellcraft Perk that grants access to another spell list" which means that having the generic Spellcaster because it's all there was renders the character unable to be an Engineer. Even if that was their original concept.

Yes that’s a totally different situation. If past choices prevent you from picking new abilities, and you had made those choices not knowing that they’d lock you out if something in the future, it only seems fair to allow a one-time respec. Especially if you had a particular character concept and you had chosen those abilities because they were the best that were available at the time, but the new ones fit your original concept even better.

Of course, this being TorgE you can always just make it clear you’re not opposed to the Martyr card and then you trade for it during gameplay. “Oh no I’m dead, I guess I need to make a new character now with the abilities I want.”

(Which is another reason why a respec should be allowed; it’s just a faster and easier way to do what the player can force themselves through gameplay.)