Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

ZorValachan
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby ZorValachan » Wed May 15, 2019 12:42 pm

It doesn't seem strange to me. People's perspective from other games may skew it with level/experience progression. Beta opens a few things to the players, but the Void/Nameless One/Darkness Devices have noticed. Knights are no longer bugs outside, but a termite infestation in the house that must be eliminated.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

Blightcrawler
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:04 pm

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Blightcrawler » Fri May 17, 2019 2:40 pm

Gargoyle wrote:Beta is a little weird because the GM gets a big power boost while players just get access to powerful new perks which they may not really want or need, or be able to afford right away. So it can feel like a nerf for some a buff or a wash for others. But in reality it's mostly just a milestone. You're getting more powerful every Act and by the time you get to Beta, yes you're pretty badass. It's just that the access to beta perks and requisitions is not a big bump, possibly because some groups haven't planned prerequisites to unlock the really good stuff in there and there aren't that many beta perks available yet.


This is a great way to frame it. It fits the cinematic action that Torg aims for. The end of Alpha is like the end of the first movie. In Beta, the heroes are pretty much the same as we got to know them in the first movie. They might have a few new tricks, but they aren't dramatically different. The challenges they will face, however, are on a whole new level. They'll struggle at first and have to rise to the new level of antagonism with new levels of teamwork and additional resources gathered on the journey.

Of course, this only implies a movie structure, and might help in thinking about handling clearance levels. There's no need to plan your mission/acts to be in perfect in sync with reaching 50 XP so that you end "your movie" with a climax/roll credits. Action movies can be continuous stories, picking up seconds where the previous left off (e.g. Crank, Incredibles, Back to the Future).

User avatar
Greymarch2000
Posts: 583
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Greymarch2000 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:41 pm

There's a pretty big difference in feel from a 0 XP Alpha character and a 45 XP Alpha character. So there is likewise a serious difference between a fresh 55 XP Beta character and a 145 XP Beta character like my crew is now. I've been running some Alpha (or "High Alpha" like the mega-adventures) and even with the discretionary possibilities they can chew through most encounters. A lot of Beta abilties don't seem super powered but what they often add is consistency, things like Killshot don't seem huge but actually make large swings.

So just passing the mark into Beta may not immediately feel like a "big deal" but if you suddenly go back to play Alpha characters for a one-off your players will definitely notice the difference.

User avatar
Atama
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:30 am
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Atama » Fri May 17, 2019 9:04 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:A lot of Beta abilties don't seem super powered but what they often add is consistency, things like Killshot don't seem huge but actually make large swings.

Remember that even though Killshot is from the Beta Primer, it doesn’t require Beta Clearance. Its only requirement is Double Tap. So that’s not a great example.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

johntfs
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:31 am

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby johntfs » Fri May 17, 2019 9:23 pm

Sir Awesome wrote:So my group has been playing torg for awhile, and we are a very high power gaming/rules crunching group. One discussion that we have been having off and on in the last several sessions as we are now solidly in beta clearance is that the system seams very front loaded.

By this we mean that for almost every character we build the perks/spells that will decide how my character plays are taken immediately with the perks that just give us a couple of adds to what we are doing are taken last.

I never expected there to be a lot of beta clearance items in the base book, but I would have expected more in the cosm books.

Personally I don't feel that there are enough meaningful choices to make that require beta clearance or above.

Thoughts?


Getting to Beta Clearance requires 10 Acts of play. Not 10 full adventures, but 10 Acts. So, 5 Delphi Adventures and The God Box makes you Beta. So, you really shouldn't expect a massive jump in power/opportunity. Gamma, which requires 30 additional Acts of adventures, is probably going to show a much steep rise in power/opportunity.

Let's face it, between the official adventures, including the Supers and the Infiniverse, an active play group could reach even Gamma status pretty quickly.

User avatar
Plageman
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: Haguenau, France

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Plageman » Sun May 26, 2019 8:06 am

I wonder when -in the timeline- should the players reach Beta Clearance. For me I'd try to make it coincide with the Q4 of the first year of the invasion.

johntfs
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:31 am

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby johntfs » Sun May 26, 2019 4:52 pm

Plageman wrote:I wonder when -in the timeline- should the players reach Beta Clearance. For me I'd try to make it coincide with the Q4 of the first year of the invasion.


I don't know about should, but my group went beyond Beta in the first quarter or so of Year One due to the Delphi and Infiniverse adventures. I mean, face it, 10 Acts is not a lot of adventuring. If a group meets once a week for 10 weeks, that's 10 Acts right there. So, two and a half months to go from Alpha to Beta.

darrell
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby darrell » Mon May 27, 2019 3:23 pm

God Box is 5 acts, Fires of Ra 7, Revenge of the Carredon another 7. Beta can be reached quickly...

User avatar
Plageman
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: Haguenau, France

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Plageman » Mon May 27, 2019 4:05 pm

It's a common issue in role playing game that the player characters grow in power way faster than even the adventurous NPCs due to the heap of experience they can accrue in a weekly session. Even if you ditch experience points in says D&D their rise in levels can happen way too fast, especially since the adventures tend to expect them to be at a certain level of skill.

For TorgE what I've done is having alternate Delphi Council teams that are not the primary PC team for some adventures, so I can still play these adventures without having the team rising too fast. Since I also don't want to penalize too much the other team, they still receive a fraction of experience points.

So far I GMed the Day One LL with the pre-written PCs. Then switched to a 5 act adventure following the trace of the True Cross in Core Earth, Aysle and Camelot with the normal SK team. Then had a break with the Heart of Ukhan adventure using a group of new SK and tying it to the PCs of the Day One LL adventure. And finally we introduced a new team Tharkold member by playing the Tharkold Day One (since its a survivor of that squad). The next adventure will be located in Tharkold and will draw inspiration from the wonderful Save or Dice podcast adventures GMed by Darell. All those adventures were played by the same group.

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4901
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby TorgHacker » Mon May 27, 2019 4:40 pm

I actually want to say that the original XP reward was 3 XP per Act. I'm not sure why we increased it.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests