Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

mica
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby mica » Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 am

Darrell explained the ideology behind xp awards when we chatted to him at the UK games expo. It was a concern that veteran gamers simply didn’t have as much time to game as back when we were all teenagers and in our 20’s (at the time of oTorg). As such the game design took this into consideration insofar as giving missing players xp, starting new characters at the same xp as existing characters and presumably increasing the amount of xp per session so that players can enjoy character development on a regular basis.

Basically, Darrell was under the naive impression that veteran gamers had grown out of being munchkin point hounds :lol:

The designers of The One Ring (Cubicle 7) came to a similar conclusion for their system.

Personally I think this should have been explained in more detail or in terms of maximum xp per in-game year as I found players demanding full quota xp for a session of interruptions, rules debates and procrastination or trying to squeeze in lots of adventures within an in-game time period to push xp out of all proportion with the surrounding story.

fougerec
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby fougerec » Tue May 28, 2019 9:12 am

mica wrote:Personally I think this should have been explained in more detail or in terms of maximum xp per in-game year as I found players demanding full quota xp for a session of interruptions, rules debates and procrastination or trying to squeeze in lots of adventures within an in-game time period to push xp out of all proportion with the surrounding story.


I'd think that's the sort of thing that's up to each individual table and group and doesn't need to take up page count. In our game I do XP per session not per Act because my players like to feel like they are advancing, with the escalating Perk cost it works out fine. They did start to balk at the unchanging XP when they got to the point where a single Perk cost them 15xp but when I compared it to D&D where you breeze through levels 1-3 and then it slows up they were fine. We're 31 games in (so 155xp) and the PCs are good at what they do but not overpowered. It feels like mid-level D&D (which is where the game is the most fun IMO). New characters coming in are slightly better at one specific thing that the existing character but the older characters make up for in when it comes to being well rounded.

mica
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby mica » Tue May 28, 2019 9:55 am

I'd think that's the sort of thing that's up to each individual table and group and doesn't need to take up page count.

It's one of those things that becomes clearer after you have run the game for a while but the greater perspective would have need nice to know at the beginning and to be honest wouldn't have taken up more than a paragraph.

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Kuildeous
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Kuildeous » Wed May 29, 2019 8:22 am

If I had a chat with a newbie GM, I'd probably suggest an unofficial table of XP based on how quickly they want the PCs to advance. Something like:

2 XP/Act – Your group's in it for the long haul. Twenty-five acts before Beta.
3 XP/Act – Some advancement but not too fast. Seventeen acts before Beta.
5 XP /Act – Fast advancement that'll plateau much later. Ten acts before Beta.
8 XP/Act – Great for short campaigns. Seven acts before Beta.

I wouldn't rule out variable-rate XP, but that gets dangerously close to merit-based XP, which I abhor. I did that for my group's run into Alpha. I gave 2 or 3 XP per act. Which amount I gave depended on whether the act was a major footnote in the story or not, regardless of how well they did.
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Greymarch2000
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Greymarch2000 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:45 am

My thought was going with 3 XP per Act that's not the end of an adventure but 5 XP for final Acts or single Act adventures. But I think my players would freak now with how long it takes to save up for stuff in mid-Beta if I tried to implement it heh

fougerec
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby fougerec » Wed May 29, 2019 9:58 am

Greymarch2000 wrote:My thought was going with 3 XP per Act that's not the end of an adventure but 5 XP for final Acts or single Act adventures. But I think my players would freak now with how long it takes to save up for stuff in mid-Beta if I tried to implement it heh


That was my issue. Early game players are getting a new thing every Act, later on they need to save up and it seems weird to them. Even though it is almost exactly the same as D&D with early level rapidity and mid/late level taking time.

johntfs
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby johntfs » Thu May 30, 2019 11:19 am

Greymarch2000 wrote:My thought was going with 3 XP per Act that's not the end of an adventure but 5 XP for final Acts or single Act adventures. But I think my players would freak now with how long it takes to save up for stuff in mid-Beta if I tried to implement it heh


That's probably the structure I'll adopt going forward. One other thing I plan to do is make spells/miracles/psi-powers their own experience category. Figure as TORG:E goes on, there's going to end up being dozens if not hundreds of possible choices in each of those areas. And players dedicated to getting them might get to choose five, maybe seven or so?

So, I think I'll use this:

Johntfs wrote:I think a better way to do it would be to take the required skill level for the ability/spell/etc divide it by 2 and round up. That's the cost of a new whatever-it-is. Spellcaster/psion/miracle-worker still gives you your three whatevers and still costs a Perk slot. But if your Mage buys Divination and wants to Detect Magic, it costs 4 XP (Divination 8 / 2 = 4 xp). Meanwhile, if your Psion wants to Mind Control people, she pays 8 XP (once her Telepathy reaches the 16 she needs to use that power). This way people don't have to use their Perks and try to cherry-pick the "good" spells/miracles/etc. The potent stuff still costs more, but the minor, useful stuff (Detect Magic, Gain Language, etc.) no long gets to the point of needing 3+ adventures to obtain.

FrankG
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby FrankG » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:18 pm

In my campaign the characters were Beta in a week of in game time. Due to the fact that they were trying to make their way, on foot, from the Jersey Shore to Philadelphia and had a number of adventures on the way. This was months of real world time though.

As for the 5xp per act. It does make characters grow super fast in the beginning. But with veteran characters it is going to be comparatively slow. Due to the fact that, RAW, XP gain is on a fixed growth (5 xp/act) and perks, skills, and attributes are based on an increased curve cost.
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GeniusCodeMonkey
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:21 am

Interestingly enough the Fires of Ra has 35 scenes or 7 acts. 1 XP a scene = 35 XP, 5 XP per act = 35 XP. Coincidence? Hmm..
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Kuildeous
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Re: Beta Doesn't seam to be a big enough deal

Postby Kuildeous » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:41 pm

GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:Interestingly enough the Fires of Ra has 35 scenes or 7 acts. 1 XP a scene = 35 XP, 5 XP per act = 35 XP. Coincidence? Hmm..


Those darn Nile mathematicians and their synchronicity.
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