Whirlwind + Unarmed

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Greymarch2000
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Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby Greymarch2000 » Thu May 23, 2019 1:03 pm

One of my players was questioning whether Whirlwind could be used with unarmed attacks such as edeinos claws or pain gauntlets or the like. Technically the perk says melee not unarmed and usually things in TorgE only do exactly what they say but I could really see how this should apply. What do people think?

  1. Whirlwind applies to both melee and unarmed attacks
  2. Whirlwind applies to both melee and unarmed attacks using a weapon (bladed gauntlets etc but not fists)
  3. Whirlwind applies only to melee weapons, there is no option to lessen multi-attack penalties for unarmed
  4. Whirlwind could apply to either melee or unarmed, choose when perk is taken

GeniusCodeMonkey
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Thu May 23, 2019 1:15 pm

2. Basically if you have bladed Gauntlets you aren't unarmed.

As a side note, I'm sure that PP with have a perk like this for unarmed for Ki powers.
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ZorValachan
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby ZorValachan » Thu May 23, 2019 5:19 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:One of my players was questioning whether Whirlwind could be used with unarmed attacks such as edeinos claws or pain gauntlets or the like. Technically the perk says melee not unarmed and usually things in TorgE only do exactly what they say but I could really see how this should apply. What do people think?

  1. Whirlwind applies to both melee and unarmed attacks
  2. Whirlwind applies to both melee and unarmed attacks using a weapon (bladed gauntlets etc but not fists)
  3. Whirlwind applies only to melee weapons, there is no option to lessen multi-attack penalties for unarmed
  4. Whirlwind could apply to either melee or unarmed, choose when perk is taken

As the Perk specifically references the melee weapons skill and not "weapons" like Trademark Weapon, which officially can use claws and other weapons that use the unarmed combat skill, i would say 3. 1, 2 and 4 would be house rule territory. That would be ok, but then you might open a can of worms when the next guy wants to use Brawler with the melee weapons skill.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
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Atama
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby Atama » Thu May 23, 2019 6:19 pm

Agree with ZorValachan. The perk explicitly mentions the Melee Weapons skill which doesn’t leave it open to any ambiguity.
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TorgHacker
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby TorgHacker » Thu May 23, 2019 11:03 pm

Atama wrote:Agree with ZorValachan. The perk explicitly mentions the Melee Weapons skill which doesn’t leave it open to any ambiguity.


This is correct, though to be fair, today we corrected a character in Relics of Power who I DID give Whirlwind because brainfart.

And yeah, Pan-Pacifica will have something like this, and probably some sort of upgrade to Whirlwind, because IMO it really should have been any close-combat attack.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
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mica
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby mica » Fri May 24, 2019 4:14 am

If whirlwind only applies to melee some monsters do not make sense:

DRAGON
Gigantic, reptilian embodiments of greed and
destruction—dragons are intelligent and territorial
hoarders prone to viciously attacking anyone who
stumbles into their path.
Attributes: Charisma 10, Dexterity 8, Mind 10,
Spirit 12, Strength 17
Skills: Apportation 14, dodge 10, intimidation 15,
find 12, maneuver 10, missile weapons 12, taunt
13, unarmed combat 14
Move: 10; Tough: 21 (4); Shock: 16; Wounds: 5
Equipment: —
Perks: Whirlwind

They do not have weapons and I'm fairly certain that some edeinos use their whip tail as part of whirlwind (not sure which LL NPC this was specifically mentioned on). Are claws counted as melee weapons as dragons do not have melee weapon skill...

ZorValachan
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby ZorValachan » Fri May 24, 2019 8:29 am

mica wrote:If whirlwind only applies to melee some monsters do not make sense:

DRAGON
Gigantic, reptilian embodiments of greed and
destruction—dragons are intelligent and territorial
hoarders prone to viciously attacking anyone who
stumbles into their path.
Attributes: Charisma 10, Dexterity 8, Mind 10,
Spirit 12, Strength 17
Skills: Apportation 14, dodge 10, intimidation 15,
find 12, maneuver 10, missile weapons 12, taunt
13, unarmed combat 14
Move: 10; Tough: 21 (4); Shock: 16; Wounds: 5
Equipment: —
Perks: Whirlwind

They do not have weapons and I'm fairly certain that some edeinos use their whip tail as part of whirlwind (not sure which LL NPC this was specifically mentioned on). Are claws counted as melee weapons as dragons do not have melee weapon skill...

It's been stated before, threats do not have to follow the same rules as player characters. But it was probably accidental. I'd just consider it a special threat perk
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

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TorgHacker
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Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby TorgHacker » Fri May 24, 2019 12:42 pm

mica wrote:If whirlwind only applies to melee some monsters do not make sense:

DRAGON
Gigantic, reptilian embodiments of greed and
destruction—dragons are intelligent and territorial
hoarders prone to viciously attacking anyone who
stumbles into their path.
Attributes: Charisma 10, Dexterity 8, Mind 10,
Spirit 12, Strength 17
Skills: Apportation 14, dodge 10, intimidation 15,
find 12, maneuver 10, missile weapons 12, taunt
13, unarmed combat 14
Move: 10; Tough: 21 (4); Shock: 16; Wounds: 5
Equipment: —
Perks: Whirlwind

They do not have weapons and I'm fairly certain that some edeinos use their whip tail as part of whirlwind (not sure which LL NPC this was specifically mentioned on). Are claws counted as melee weapons as dragons do not have melee weapon skill...


If you've got more of these, let me know. Don't need to copy the stat block, just let me know which monsters have gotten Whirlwind without melee weapons.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

mica
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:32 pm

Re: Whirlwind + Unarmed

Postby mica » Fri May 24, 2019 3:46 pm

Did a quick find in files and found this one but admittedly not find the reference to using the tail as part of whirlwind - might well be duff memory when I ran though Day One, Delphi and God Box.

Delphi missions
TAINTED EDEINOS


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