Stacking Clarification

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Spatula
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Spatula » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:19 pm

So if I have an edeinos with the Death Claws, Blessed Weapon (claws), and Brawler perks, the strike miracle, and wearing spiked plate armor from Aysle, it would have:

  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
So I would guess that Blessed Weapon and strike don't stack as they both boost weapon damage, and Brawler and the spiked armor don't stack as they both boost unarmed damage. But do those two groups stack with each other or not? That is, if strike had a regular Success (+1 damage), would the edeinos have a +2 to damage (nothing stacks) or +3 (strike/Blessed Weapon stacks with Brawler/spiked plate armor). Or do I have it all wrong?

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TorgHacker
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:22 pm

Spatula wrote:So if I have an edeinos with the Death Claws, Blessed Weapon (claws), and Brawler perks, the strike miracle, and wearing spiked plate armor from Aysle, it would have:

  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
So I would guess that Blessed Weapon and strike don't stack as they both boost weapon damage, and Brawler and the spiked armor don't stack as they both boost unarmed damage. But do those two groups stack with each other or not? That is, if strike had a regular Success (+1 damage), would the edeinos have a +2 to damage (nothing stacks) or +3 (strike/Blessed Weapon stacks with Brawler/spiked plate armor). Or do I have it all wrong?


Nothing in here stacks. It's all damage.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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Atama
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Atama » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:25 pm

Spiked Plate only gives a bonus while grappling. So make sure you’re not applying that to all Unarmed attacks. I’m also not sure if grappling counts as “attacking with claws”, though that’s arguable.
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Spatula
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Spatula » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:37 pm

Atama wrote:Spiked Plate only gives a bonus while grappling. So make sure you’re not applying that to all Unarmed attacks. I’m also not sure if grappling counts as “attacking with claws”, though that’s arguable.

The table says it adds to unarmed damage (no conditions mentioned), the text says to unarmed tests when grappling. So I'm not sure which is right or if they both are. The Zan Spinose Plating is very similar and it only mentions a damage bonus with no conditions.

agarrett
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby agarrett » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:04 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
Spatula wrote:So if I have an edeinos with the Death Claws, Blessed Weapon (claws), and Brawler perks, the strike miracle, and wearing spiked plate armor from Aysle, it would have:

  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
So I would guess that Blessed Weapon and strike don't stack as they both boost weapon damage, and Brawler and the spiked armor don't stack as they both boost unarmed damage. But do those two groups stack with each other or not? That is, if strike had a regular Success (+1 damage), would the edeinos have a +2 to damage (nothing stacks) or +3 (strike/Blessed Weapon stacks with Brawler/spiked plate armor). Or do I have it all wrong?


Nothing in here stacks. It's all damage.


OK, now I'm even more lost... If damage bonuses can't stack, can Blessed Weapon ever do anything? It adds a +1 damage bonus to a weapon tech 7 or lower. But a club, for example, does Str+2 damage, so it seems these damage bonuses can't stack. Or am I misinterpreting the Death Claw feat somehow, which says an edeinos does Str+3/AP2 when attacking with claws? This answer really puzzles me.

The Brawler perk explicitly says it stacks with any other unarmed combat bonuses, such as an edeinos claw attack. Does that mean only with the base edeinos claw attack, and not with perks that replace it?

The strike miracle is worded very similarly to Blessed Weapon, and I could see those two not stacking, but judging from your answer, my confusion is coming much earlier.

I think the stacking rules are needed. Unarmed combat is actually the easiest thing to currently abuse, but I think I'm badly misunderstanding the current rules. Thanks for any help.

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Atama
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Atama » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:05 pm

Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:Spiked Plate only gives a bonus while grappling. So make sure you’re not applying that to all Unarmed attacks. I’m also not sure if grappling counts as “attacking with claws”, though that’s arguable.

The table says it adds to unarmed damage (no conditions mentioned), the text says to unarmed tests when grappling. So I'm not sure which is right or if they both are. The Zan Spinose Plating is very similar and it only mentions a damage bonus with no conditions.

That’s because there’s not enough space in the table for a full description. I always go by the descriptions for details on all gear. That’s just common sense.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:07 pm

Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:Spiked Plate only gives a bonus while grappling. So make sure you’re not applying that to all Unarmed attacks. I’m also not sure if grappling counts as “attacking with claws”, though that’s arguable.

The table says it adds to unarmed damage (no conditions mentioned), the text says to unarmed tests when grappling. So I'm not sure which is right or if they both are. The Zan Spinose Plating is very similar and it only mentions a damage bonus with no conditions.


Just checked with Darrell, and it is a bonus to unarmed combat tests, as detailed on page 146, not the table.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

vaminion
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby vaminion » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:08 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage

Nothing in here stacks. It's all damage.


So if I'm mathing this right, the damage ends up as strength+3?

For the sake of argument. Say I have Death Claw (Str+3 damage, AP2), and I somehow get a +4 to damage. I'm assuming my unarmed attacks are now Str+4, AP2?

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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:11 pm

agarrett wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Spatula wrote:So if I have an edeinos with the Death Claws, Blessed Weapon (claws), and Brawler perks, the strike miracle, and wearing spiked plate armor from Aysle, it would have:

  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
So I would guess that Blessed Weapon and strike don't stack as they both boost weapon damage, and Brawler and the spiked armor don't stack as they both boost unarmed damage. But do those two groups stack with each other or not? That is, if strike had a regular Success (+1 damage), would the edeinos have a +2 to damage (nothing stacks) or +3 (strike/Blessed Weapon stacks with Brawler/spiked plate armor). Or do I have it all wrong?


Nothing in here stacks. It's all damage.


OK, now I'm even more lost... If damage bonuses can't stack, can Blessed Weapon ever do anything? It adds a +1 damage bonus to a weapon tech 7 or lower. But a club, for example, does Str+2 damage, so it seems these damage bonuses can't stack. Or am I misinterpreting the Death Claw feat somehow, which says an edeinos does Str+3/AP2 when attacking with claws? This answer really puzzles me.



The base damage of a club is Str+2. That +2 is not a damage bonus. The damage is Str+2. Just like the damage of a gun is 13, or 14.

Similarly the base damage of a Death Claw is Str+3. No bonuses.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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TorgHacker
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Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:13 pm

vaminion wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
  • base: Strength + 3 (death claws)
  • +1 weapon damage, +2 vs. supernatural evil
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage
  • +1/2/3 weapon damage depending on miracle success level
  • +2 damage with unarmed damage

Nothing in here stacks. It's all damage.


So if I'm mathing this right, the damage ends up as strength+3?

For the sake of argument. Say I have Death Claw (Str+3 damage, AP2), and I somehow get a +4 to damage. I'm assuming my unarmed attacks are now Str+4, AP2?


No, Str+3 is the base damage for Death Claw. So if you somehow got +4 to damage from some source, that'd be (Str+3) + 4.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


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