Stacking Clarification

User avatar
Atama
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:30 am
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Atama » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:16 pm

By the way (not to hijack) but there are other examples of needing to read descriptions for gear. Just in the armor table alone, look at Hrockt Root Armor. The notes just say “Jakatts only” but the description explains you also need at least 1 add in Faith (Keta Kalles) and it has a Spirit Axiom of 11. Destroyer Armor has an integrated AR HUD which isn’t mentioned on the table. Just a couple of examples where if you only look at the table you’re missing key info about gear.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

vaminion
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby vaminion » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:31 pm

TorgHacker wrote:No, Str+3 is the base damage for Death Claw. So if you somehow got +4 to damage from some source, that'd be (Str+3) + 4.


Ok, so...

Death Claws sets your unarmed damage to be Str+3, AP2. That's your base value for the purposes of anything that comes later.

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/+2/+3. So Strike increases the damage of the claws to (Str+3)+(1/2/3), AP 2.

If Strike is running and I dump an Oil of +4 Damage on to the edeinos' hands, the claws then become (str+3)+4, AP2. Strike's damage bonus is temporarily ignored but I'm assuming "The weapon counts as magic while this miracle is running" still applies.

On the "Use the biggest penalty reduction" front: an edeinos with Star Eyes (ignore 4 points of darkness penalty) using Night-Vision Goggle (also ignore up to 4 points of darkness penalties) only gets to ignore 4 points of darkness penalties, not 8.

And side note on Death Claw: does attacking with the claws count as a contradiction when you're mauling someone and you're not in the Living Land?

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4603
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:52 pm

vaminion wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:No, Str+3 is the base damage for Death Claw. So if you somehow got +4 to damage from some source, that'd be (Str+3) + 4.


Ok, so...

Death Claws sets your unarmed damage to be Str+3, AP2. That's your base value for the purposes of anything that comes later.

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/+2/+3. So Strike increases the damage of the claws to (Str+3)+(1/2/3), AP 2.

If Strike is running and I dump an Oil of +4 Damage on to the edeinos' hands, the claws then become (str+3)+4, AP2. Strike's damage bonus is temporarily ignored but I'm assuming "The weapon counts as magic while this miracle is running" still applies.

On the "Use the biggest penalty reduction" front: an edeinos with Star Eyes (ignore 4 points of darkness penalty) using Night-Vision Goggle (also ignore up to 4 points of darkness penalties) only gets to ignore 4 points of darkness penalties, not 8.



Correct on all counts.


And side note on Death Claw: does attacking with the claws count as a contradiction when you're mauling someone and you're not in the Living Land?


There is no star on the Perk, and there is no associated Spirit Axiom, so no it does not cause a contradiction.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Spatula
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:00 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Spatula » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:18 pm

I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4603
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:33 pm

Spatula wrote:I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o


Not at all!
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Greymarch2000
Posts: 523
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Greymarch2000 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:04 pm

Spatula wrote:I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o


Sometimes it's best to get these things out in the open ;)

Sir Awesome
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Sir Awesome » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:16 pm

So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.

vaminion
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby vaminion » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:27 pm

Sir Awesome wrote:So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.


If I correctly understand how this all works...

Giant Strength "increases his strength by +2 for tests and determining damage". Strike "increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/2/3". Brawler says "Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Giant Strength increases your strength directly. So starting out you're treating your strength as being 2 higher.

Brawler sets your base weapon damage to Strength+2. That's not actually a bonus even though it looks like one. So with giant strength your damage is actually Strength+2 (Giant Strength)+2 (Brawler).

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon. So you end up with (Strength+2+2)+1/2/3.

And I suspect that Dragon Warriors' Dragon Claws also stack with all of this, given the wording on Brawler.
Last edited by vaminion on Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Wolfeye
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby Wolfeye » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:30 pm

TorgHacker wrote:And after conferring with Darrell, that is in fact, what we are going to do:

"Bonuses or penalties from Perks, spells, miracles, psionics, or gear do not stack. Take the best bonus or worst penalty. Modifers such as conditions (Stymied/Vulnerable), combat options (Active Defense, Aim, All-Out-Attack, Darkness), and cards all stack."


So basically modifiers that originate from something written down on your or someone else's character sheet don't stack and everything else does?

Hmm..., you could mark stymied/Vulnerable or wounds on your sheet if you don't use tokens, so it doesn't fit perfectly. It only works if you use tokens.

Well, I'll be using it as my rule of thumb.

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4603
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Stacking Clarification

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:35 pm

vaminion wrote:
Sir Awesome wrote:So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.


If I correctly understand how this all works...

Giant Strength "increases his strength by +2 for tests and determining damage". Strike "increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/2/3". Brawler says "Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Giant Strength increases your strength directly. So starting out you're treating your strength as being 2 higher.

Brawler sets your base weapon damage to Strength+2[i]. That's not actually a bonus even though it looks like one. So with giant strength your damage is actually Strength+2 (Giant Strength)+2 (Brawler).

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon. So you end up with (Strength+2+2)+1/2/3.


Correct.


And I suspect that Dragon Warriors' Dragon Claws also stack with all of this, given the wording on Brawler.


Actually, you know what? It doesn't.

"Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with [i]their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Gauntlets are not bare hands.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests