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Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:16 pm
by Atama
By the way (not to hijack) but there are other examples of needing to read descriptions for gear. Just in the armor table alone, look at Hrockt Root Armor. The notes just say “Jakatts only” but the description explains you also need at least 1 add in Faith (Keta Kalles) and it has a Spirit Axiom of 11. Destroyer Armor has an integrated AR HUD which isn’t mentioned on the table. Just a couple of examples where if you only look at the table you’re missing key info about gear.

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:31 pm
by vaminion
TorgHacker wrote:No, Str+3 is the base damage for Death Claw. So if you somehow got +4 to damage from some source, that'd be (Str+3) + 4.


Ok, so...

Death Claws sets your unarmed damage to be Str+3, AP2. That's your base value for the purposes of anything that comes later.

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/+2/+3. So Strike increases the damage of the claws to (Str+3)+(1/2/3), AP 2.

If Strike is running and I dump an Oil of +4 Damage on to the edeinos' hands, the claws then become (str+3)+4, AP2. Strike's damage bonus is temporarily ignored but I'm assuming "The weapon counts as magic while this miracle is running" still applies.

On the "Use the biggest penalty reduction" front: an edeinos with Star Eyes (ignore 4 points of darkness penalty) using Night-Vision Goggle (also ignore up to 4 points of darkness penalties) only gets to ignore 4 points of darkness penalties, not 8.

And side note on Death Claw: does attacking with the claws count as a contradiction when you're mauling someone and you're not in the Living Land?

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:52 pm
by TorgHacker
vaminion wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:No, Str+3 is the base damage for Death Claw. So if you somehow got +4 to damage from some source, that'd be (Str+3) + 4.


Ok, so...

Death Claws sets your unarmed damage to be Str+3, AP2. That's your base value for the purposes of anything that comes later.

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/+2/+3. So Strike increases the damage of the claws to (Str+3)+(1/2/3), AP 2.

If Strike is running and I dump an Oil of +4 Damage on to the edeinos' hands, the claws then become (str+3)+4, AP2. Strike's damage bonus is temporarily ignored but I'm assuming "The weapon counts as magic while this miracle is running" still applies.

On the "Use the biggest penalty reduction" front: an edeinos with Star Eyes (ignore 4 points of darkness penalty) using Night-Vision Goggle (also ignore up to 4 points of darkness penalties) only gets to ignore 4 points of darkness penalties, not 8.



Correct on all counts.


And side note on Death Claw: does attacking with the claws count as a contradiction when you're mauling someone and you're not in the Living Land?


There is no star on the Perk, and there is no associated Spirit Axiom, so no it does not cause a contradiction.

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:18 pm
by Spatula
I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:33 pm
by TorgHacker
Spatula wrote:I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o


Not at all!

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:04 pm
by Greymarch2000
Spatula wrote:I apologize for needlessly confusing the discussion by including Death Claws in the example! :o


Sometimes it's best to get these things out in the open ;)

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:16 pm
by Sir Awesome
So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:27 pm
by vaminion
Sir Awesome wrote:So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.


If I correctly understand how this all works...

Giant Strength "increases his strength by +2 for tests and determining damage". Strike "increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/2/3". Brawler says "Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Giant Strength increases your strength directly. So starting out you're treating your strength as being 2 higher.

Brawler sets your base weapon damage to Strength+2. That's not actually a bonus even though it looks like one. So with giant strength your damage is actually Strength+2 (Giant Strength)+2 (Brawler).

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon. So you end up with (Strength+2+2)+1/2/3.

And I suspect that Dragon Warriors' Dragon Claws also stack with all of this, given the wording on Brawler.

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:30 pm
by Wolfeye
TorgHacker wrote:And after conferring with Darrell, that is in fact, what we are going to do:

"Bonuses or penalties from Perks, spells, miracles, psionics, or gear do not stack. Take the best bonus or worst penalty. Modifers such as conditions (Stymied/Vulnerable), combat options (Active Defense, Aim, All-Out-Attack, Darkness), and cards all stack."


So basically modifiers that originate from something written down on your or someone else's character sheet don't stack and everything else does?

Hmm..., you could mark stymied/Vulnerable or wounds on your sheet if you don't use tokens, so it doesn't fit perfectly. It only works if you use tokens.

Well, I'll be using it as my rule of thumb.

Re: Stacking Clarification

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:35 pm
by TorgHacker
vaminion wrote:
Sir Awesome wrote:So Strike, Brawler, and Dragon Warrior Giant Strength all DO NOT stack with each other?

Cause you had ruled before that all of the above stacked with each other.


If I correctly understand how this all works...

Giant Strength "increases his strength by +2 for tests and determining damage". Strike "increases the damage value of a weapon by +1/2/3". Brawler says "Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Giant Strength increases your strength directly. So starting out you're treating your strength as being 2 higher.

Brawler sets your base weapon damage to Strength+2[i]. That's not actually a bonus even though it looks like one. So with giant strength your damage is actually Strength+2 (Giant Strength)+2 (Brawler).

Strike increases the damage value of a weapon. So you end up with (Strength+2+2)+1/2/3.


Correct.


And I suspect that Dragon Warriors' Dragon Claws also stack with all of this, given the wording on Brawler.


Actually, you know what? It doesn't.

"Characters with this perk deal Strength+2 damage with [i]their bare hands when attacking with unarmed combat. This stacks with other unarmed combat bonuses such as an edeinos's claw attack."

Gauntlets are not bare hands.