Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Savioronedge
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:55 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby Savioronedge » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:35 pm

Tangent wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
No, there's more than just a +1 bonus. Many spells in the Aysle sourcebook have a Magic Axiom of 17 and up...magic items that are similar to those spells are Arcane too. It's also magic items that can do more than one thing.

So once you see what Arcane items do, and what Artifacts do...the fact that Artifacts are only one Magic Axiom higher will probably be more evident.

Okay, I think I get that much, even if the gap between 13 and 23 seems to be rather wide.

Next question: Is there any chance that +2 bonuses can be folded into the Enchanted category of Magic Axion 13 items? Because some of the items on the Magical Treasure table on page 239 definitely exceed the +1 limit for a Magic Axiom 13 items if this isn't the case.

Specifically, the following items:
  • Potion of Strength: +3 Str for the rest of the scene.
  • Potion of Protection: +3 Toughness for the rest of the scene.
  • Scroll of Sharpness: grants one weapon AP 4 for the rest of the scene.
  • Circlet of Protection: +2 Armor, counts as Full Body. Permanent item.
  • Spellproofed Armor: Opposing spells suffer a -4 penalty when wearer is the target. Permanent item.
  • Shield of Fire Resistance: +4 protection specifically against fire. Permanent item.
  • Nimble Boots: +2 Move, plus stealth tests become favored. Permanent item.
  • Climbing Gloves: Remove 6 points of penalties for climbing tests for stone walls and cliff faces. Permanent item.
That's almost half of the Magical Treasures listed in the Core Rules book! And only three of these are one use items that only provide temporary boosts.

Anyway, I'm fine if the ruling remains the same regardless - I'm mostly wondering what the reasoning for limiting the Enchanted level to just +1 bonuses.

SWAGing here:

The potions and scrolls are just delayed-effect spells...barely worthy of the name "magic item"

The circlet is just a permanent cast Mage Armor spell, the item is in no way enhanced and has no properties to enhance.
This also applies to the Boots and Gloves directly, and the Armor and Shield indirectly... the effects do not enhance the actual properties, only provide a spell-like (i am expecting actuall spell in the ASB) effect.

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4901
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:29 pm

Tangent wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
No, there's more than just a +1 bonus. Many spells in the Aysle sourcebook have a Magic Axiom of 17 and up...magic items that are similar to those spells are Arcane too. It's also magic items that can do more than one thing.

So once you see what Arcane items do, and what Artifacts do...the fact that Artifacts are only one Magic Axiom higher will probably be more evident.

Okay, I think I get that much, even if the gap between 13 and 23 seems to be rather wide.

Next question: Is there any chance that +2 bonuses can be folded into the Enchanted category of Magic Axion 13 items? Because some of the items on the Magical Treasure table on page 239 definitely exceed the +1 limit for a Magic Axiom 13 items if this isn't the case.

Specifically, the following items:
  • Potion of Strength: +3 Str for the rest of the scene.
  • Potion of Protection: +3 Toughness for the rest of the scene.
  • Scroll of Sharpness: grants one weapon AP 4 for the rest of the scene.
  • Circlet of Protection: +2 Armor, counts as Full Body. Permanent item.
  • Spellproofed Armor: Opposing spells suffer a -4 penalty when wearer is the target. Permanent item.
  • Shield of Fire Resistance: +4 protection specifically against fire. Permanent item.
  • Nimble Boots: +2 Move, plus stealth tests become favored. Permanent item.
  • Climbing Gloves: Remove 6 points of penalties for climbing tests for stone walls and cliff faces. Permanent item.
That's almost half of the Magical Treasures listed in the Core Rules book! And only three of these are one use items that only provide temporary boosts.

Anyway, I'm fine if the ruling remains the same regardless - I'm mostly wondering what the reasoning for limiting the Enchanted level to just +1 bonuses.


I'm going to leave all this for when the Aysle SB comes out. The design is finished now, and we're just doing the last bits of playtesting.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

Tangent
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 6:27 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby Tangent » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:03 am

TorgHacker wrote:I'm going to leave all this for when the Aysle SB comes out. The design is finished now, and we're just doing the last bits of playtesting.

Fair enough, and I look forward to the release!

Fuzzy
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby Fuzzy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:20 pm

Curious to see what this looks like.

My guess is that the Axiom 23 for major items is so that they can be called semi-sentient, to provide a story justification for the attunement rule. It's a pretty hefty story justification to exert a simple balance rule.

All artifacts being fully sentient means that Aylish characters who acquire one (and let's say they do, because non-mage Ayslish characters have precious little to compensate for the lack of LAW rockets, grenade launchers, helicopters, nuclear weapons, satellites, computers, pulp powers, etc.) will now be carrying around a fully sentient personality. It's the only thing they really get that (for example) Nile characters (with magic 18, and thus the ability to wield basic magic items easily) don't get to help compensate for better social, tech, pulp powers, and weird science... so yeah, you can bet they'll have one. As an old school D&D player, let's just say this has... implications. Particularly if, say, the magic item is smarter than me. Which is often the case.

It sounds like the rules have been pretty much written, though, and dissenting opinions aren't really going to change anything, so I guess we shall see how it goes.

utsukushi
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby utsukushi » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:18 pm

I'm not sure how you're getting from "attained a limited amount of sentience" to "all artifacts are fully sentient". It sounds like you're right that it's a lot to explain the Attunement rule and to stop Light characters from using Dark artifacts and vice-versa, but it sounds a long way from talking swords fighting for control over the character's mind.

It does seem like that's possible at Axiom 24, though - at least the talking part. So that suggests to me that most artifacts aren't that at all, but they are possible, and that's awesome.

(Incidentally, I quite like the idea of a really powerful magic item or AI being Reality rated with its own Possibilities. It's not necessarily something I'd look to see in canon, but I'd be disappointed to see it officially ruled out.)

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4901
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:42 pm

utsukushi wrote:I'm not sure how you're getting from "attained a limited amount of sentience" to "all artifacts are fully sentient". It sounds like you're right that it's a lot to explain the Attunement rule and to stop Light characters from using Dark artifacts and vice-versa, but it sounds a long way from talking swords fighting for control over the character's mind.



Yeah, that's not a thing. Not as standard anyway.


It does seem like that's possible at Axiom 24, though - at least the talking part. So that suggests to me that most artifacts aren't that at all, but they are possible, and that's awesome.

(Incidentally, I quite like the idea of a really powerful magic item or AI being Reality rated with its own Possibilities. It's not necessarily something I'd look to see in canon, but I'd be disappointed to see it officially ruled out.)


:mrgreen:
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Spatula
Posts: 1042
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:00 pm

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby Spatula » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 am

Fuzzy wrote:All artifacts being fully sentient means that Aylish characters who acquire one (and let's say they do, because non-mage Ayslish characters have precious little to compensate for the lack of LAW rockets, grenade launchers, helicopters, nuclear weapons, satellites, computers, pulp powers, etc.)

That's an odd way to look at things. What does a non-soldier Core Earth character have to compensate for the lack of ability with LAW rockets, grenade launchers, helicopters, etc.?

For those without spells, there's still magic items and perks (Aysle has, I believe, the most cosm-specific perks over 5 categories, though the Light & Dark ones are kinda underwhelming IMO). The items on the random enchanted item table are pretty good.

GeniusCodeMonkey
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 2:35 am

Re: Aysle Preview #9 - Magic Items (Part 1)

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:57 am

Fuzzy wrote:All artifacts being fully sentient means that Aylish characters who acquire one (and let's say they do, because non-mage Ayslish characters have precious little to compensate for the lack of LAW rockets, grenade launchers, helicopters, nuclear weapons, satellites, computers, pulp powers, etc.)


Hmm.. you have to remember that this is an invasion. So from the High Lords point of view, LAW rockets, grenade launchers, nuclear weapons etc. don't work in Asyle the tech axiom doesn't support it so they don't matter. For the rare times they do work, they have spells to counteract them. Magic will always trump tech in Asyle.

From a Storm Knights point of view going into strange worlds where these things do work... it's a harsh, dangerous world out there, life isn't fair.. and people still die with 2 feet of steel in there guts.

From the players point of view, it's a character choice. I'm sure you don't give LAW rockets or nuclear weapons to every Core Earth PC; just like not every Asyle PC will have an Artifact.


The ideal would be for all cosms to be completely balanced, but then that would make all character choices pointless as they are all the same.
Question everything.
Politeness costs nothing.


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests