Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Kanaris
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Re: Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Postby Kanaris » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:11 am

pkitty wrote:Thanks Deanna et al, both for the answer and for ideas on other differences between the two. Since the thread topic got stretched a bit, I'll just go ahead and share my summary. If anyone thinks it's off, let me know.

Pulp Power                                Psionic Power
Think "supernaturally persuasive" Think "mental domination"
Range 10m Range 50m
Uses willpower, at -4 if hostile Uses telepathy
Duration 10s, 1m, or scene Duration scene
Roll to break free if tasked against Roll to break free as an action*, possibly at a penalty,
- their nature, possibly at a bonus - and can be ended early via clarity power

Note: 1. Though the reason why differs, in practice both are contradictions outside of their cosm.
2. In combat, this is once per turn. Out of combat, the GM decides how often these rolls take place.


Any views on how to homebrew a charm person spell which is balanced with these powers? Pixaud's assigns it a magic axiom of 11, though under the TorgE axiom guidelines I would assign it an axiom of 12. Either way, it could be cast without contradiction anywhere other than CE, LL or PP. I also would have thought it would not require any more than alteration 12 to acquire.

On one view the pulp power reflects a charm - which is supernatural persuasiveness, but I would have thought balance with these powers requires a less powerful spell. perhaps something that makes the target vulnerable or very vulnerable to the caster's persuasion?

utsukushi
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Re: Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Postby utsukushi » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:15 am

I wouldn't compare magically Charming someone to full-on mind control in the first place. Off hand, with the skill-and-axiom parameters you're looking for, I'd suggest a Charm spell that makes Persuasion rolls against the target Favored - either with a duration of Concentration, or for a Scene so long as no hostile action is taken against the target or their allies in their sight. (I kind of like the latter Duration better, but it's more finicky.) Probably with a range of like 15m and a DN of the Target's Mind or Willpower.

Kanaris
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Re: Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Postby Kanaris » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:17 am

utsukushi wrote:I wouldn't compare magically Charming someone to full-on mind control in the first place. Off hand, with the skill-and-axiom parameters you're looking for, I'd suggest a Charm spell that makes Persuasion rolls against the target Favored - either with a duration of Concentration, or for a Scene so long as no hostile action is taken against the target or their allies in their sight. (I kind of like the latter Duration better, but it's more finicky.) Probably with a range of like 15m and a DN of the Target's Mind or Willpower.


Thanks, I think that's a great idea :) I wanted something less powerful than mind control. Charm is one if the basic magic tropes and thought there should be a spell for it

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pkitty
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Re: Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Postby pkitty » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:50 am

For what it's worth, this is the verbiage that I've decided to adopt for every direct mind control power (not indirect, like the charm suggestion above), existing or future. I think it strikes the right balance, making it relatively easy to get a guard to grab that keycard without letting you own a High Lord due to a crazily boosted roll:

Possibility-rated subjects may make a resistance roll every turn to break free. An ord instead rolls only when tasked with something drastically against his nature, such as harming an ally or himself; the GM should modify this as she sees fit, usually +4 to resist harming a loved one or oneself, +2 to resist harming his allies, etc. If a subject resists or breaks free, he cannot be subject to any further mind control effects for the remainder of the scene.
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TorgHacker
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Re: Breaking free of Mind Control (pulp vs psi)

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:45 pm

Kanaris wrote:
utsukushi wrote:I wouldn't compare magically Charming someone to full-on mind control in the first place. Off hand, with the skill-and-axiom parameters you're looking for, I'd suggest a Charm spell that makes Persuasion rolls against the target Favored - either with a duration of Concentration, or for a Scene so long as no hostile action is taken against the target or their allies in their sight. (I kind of like the latter Duration better, but it's more finicky.) Probably with a range of like 15m and a DN of the Target's Mind or Willpower.


Thanks, I think that's a great idea :) I wanted something less powerful than mind control. Charm is one if the basic magic tropes and thought there should be a spell for it


We did have Charm as a spell, but it was removed for space reasons. It'll show up eventually in all likelihood. We chose to get rid of it because Enhance on Charisma overlaps the design space at least a little bit.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


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