Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

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Matthew Surridge
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Matthew Surridge » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:17 pm

GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:You still have predictability of what sounds right like going from a C sharp to B flat will sound off and shouldn't be done without something inbetween. You can listen to other music (research other spells) to find what sounds right; but the process and what you're trying to do is still predictable.

It also takes hard work and talent helps.


I'd quibble that predictable is maybe not the word. If music were predictable, artists would produce masterpieces (and/or chart-toppers) with every song (or every performance). So "little predictive quality" sounds fair to me; an artist/magician can apply rules, consciously or unconsciously, which is enough to make something happen (a song, a spell) and (hopefully, usually) avoid major explosions. But whether it produces the intended effect is another thing. Then again, we may just have different interpretations of the word "little."

I was thinking more in terms of songwriting than performance, I suppose, but I'd also say there's a difference between sheet music and recorded music. Recordings give you the same exact sounds, every time. Sheet music gives a blueprint that still requires some individual interpretation, and is subject to individual accidents, so no two performances are exactly alike — though high-skill individuals will come close. Whether that's more than a "little" predictive … I guess it depends on your definition.
Humankind cannot bear very much reality
— T.S. Eliot, who didn't know the half of it

My Torg Eternity review, part one and part two

Wakshani
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Wakshani » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:46 pm

Well, for chart toppers, might I submit as evidence (not quite safe for work due to a teensy bit of language at the start)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

:D

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Wakshani » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:30 pm

((At this point, we are INSANELY off topic and should probably go back to talking about the book itself. Sorry Deanna! Hope you're enjoying Hawaii! Please don't thump us too hard when you come back!))

So, I thought that the Dunad situation was a pretty darn clever bit. Any other parts stick out in an "Ooo, didn't expect THAT!" kind of way?

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Rabbitball
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:26 pm

GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:"However, unlike Core Earth science, there is little predictive quality to magic. A Core Earth scientist may conclude reliably that silicon dioxide will have similar chemical structure and chemical properties to carbon dioxide, but replacing the elemental fire of fireball with elemental ice will not necessarily produce an iceball, or even a waterball. The only way to know is to do it yourself or research what others have done."

The fact you can research what other have done, means that it is predictable.

Unpredictability of magic in a Magic Axiom 24 cosm does not make sense. At Axiom 22 "Improvised magic become possible", without some understanding or prediction on what you would be casting you would be killing yourself and others in gruel-some ways more times than not.

"Like science, magic has become predictable to those who have studied it. Just as a Core Earth scientist may conclude reliably that silicon dioxide will have similar chemical structure and chemical properties to carbon dioxide. With study and research replacing the elemental fire of fireball with elemental ice will produce an iceball, or even a waterball, creating a new spell. Researching what others have created can quicken the process."

The word count is the same. It still means people need to learn a new spell and can't change principles on the fly (which I think is the intent of the original paragraph).


Except it isn't what is meant. Even in oTorg, we had this:
The Primary Rule of Magic wrote:Magic is not physics, or chemistry, or biology. It is a distinct discipline with its own rules. Magic works by extending the will of the spellcaster, interweaving it with nature and coming up with a result. The primary rule of magic is a spell will have no positive effect without being willed by the caster; negative or non-effects are generally a result of insufficient control and will.

Thus magic and technology are at odds at a fundamental level. Technology works with natural laws, while magic intervenes in those laws. Each has its advantages and drawbacks.


Technology allows you to take one part out of a machine, replace it with another similar part, and have a predictable result. With magic, you can't guarantee that knowing fireball and ice cube will mean you can necessarily make an iceball. Magic just doesn't work that way. Maybe someone else made an iceball, which you can research. Or maybe you can take the Spell Researcher Perk, design what you think an iceball should look like, and then try to get it at the start of the game session. Maybe there's something about elemental ice that doesn't allow for iceballs, which means you can't ever get it. Maybe there's a restriction that makes it a DN 30 to research. Or maybe, just maybe, it works just as you think it does and you get it first try. Science works on syllogisms: X and Y are true, therefore; Z must be true. Magic defies syllogisms, just as dragons defy physical categorization.
Last edited by Rabbitball on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 pm

Wakshani wrote:Yeah, you'd need to get under the hood a bit.

Perhaps something for a Practical Grimoire down the line? A dedicated E-book for those who want to hack spells? Not big enough for a full book but with enough limited appeal to make it worth creating.

More than the Beta Primer, more like the Ruins of the Living Land.

Just a thought.



I fully intend to put some spell hack pointers and "lost spells" into a book at some point, but whether that becomes an official product or an Infiniverse Exchange project remains to be seen.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
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"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:41 pm

SichoPhiend wrote:You may have to bear with me a minute, this question starts out about the Shield Spell from the Core book, and depending on the first answer may eventually reach the Aysle book.

How does the Shield spell function, practically speaking? We know it doesn't stack with a real shield, but is it itself basically a real shield? Do I get the Toughness bonus if I use it for an active defense like I would a regular shield? Or is it only a bonus to physical defenses and never anything more?

As for the Aysle part, if the Shield spell basically acts as a real shield, can I use the Shield Mastery and Shield Wall Perks with it?


Deanna will probably have to consult with either Darrell or Greg Gordon about the official ruling, but the way I see it is this:

Shield Spell wrote:A successful casting adds +1 to all the caster’s physical defenses (dodge, melee combat, and unarmed combat). The bonus follows normal Stacking rules, so a shield spell cast on a character with a real shield gets whichever bonus is best.


This implies to me that the Shield spell is not a real shield; just a magical force that adds a bonus to physical defenses in the same way a shield does.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:56 pm

Fuzzy wrote:It appears that there is a subtable for special armors (circlet, vestments, etc.), but there is no way to actually get to that subtable.

I take it the resemblance to D&D 2nd edition is nor mere accident btw. :)


A chart that can't be reached is probably my fault. I was trying to get everything connected, but some things may have slipped through the cracks. But it may have worked out for the best in that priest robes are probably best as a planned drop and not a random treasure.

The D&D 2nd Edition resemblance is coincidental. I focused more on the odd-numbered versions, so 2nd is not a strong suit for me.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:59 pm

GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:I'm not sure if it's mentioned, but the necromancer perk doesn't list Spellcaster as a prerequisite.


True, but that's the only way you're going to meet the listed Prerequisite of 3 Necromancy spells. :P Submit it as a correction anyway.
Last edited by Rabbitball on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Rabbitball » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:03 pm

Etan Krel wrote:I don't know if someone already stated it, but I found it weird that the paragraph about the gods and the guilt of the elves is in the miracles section instead of the game master section.
It is a sensitive information and the players shouldn't stumble upon it.


It's probably a result of the fact that the same person who wrote the miracles section also wrote about the gods and the guilt of the elves. (Guess who that was? :lol: )
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Spatula
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Spatula » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:45 am

Regarding the arcane knowledge lists, "shield" doesn't appear on any of them.

Also, "armor" and "speak with dead" only appear on the Necromancy list, when I think every spell should fit into one of the 4 knowledges, no?


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