Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

graethynne
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby graethynne » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:59 pm

Badger3d wrote:Beast Friend seems like a like a week version of Primitive Allure, it doesn’t add anything so why not just use Primitive Allure and Elf as the blockers for getting Drake Friend instead and drop Beast Friend.


Primitive allure only* works against denizens of of the Living Land. So while there is a fairly narrow slicing here, I don't see a need to collapse them. basically the split is any character with Charisma 8+ can be really good at social interactions with sentient or animal creatures native to the living land. Elves with Charisma 8+ can be really good with animals only (Mind 5 or less), from any cosm. And then Beast friend tracks into the drake stuff, while Primitive allure has the combat application.

*edit* I missed the line about animals always counting...in light of that, this does seem awfully thinly sliced. I suspect it may be mostly the issue noted below about different being in different books then. Although, this may be kind of moot. The only *mechanical* reason to take beast friend over Primitive Allure anyway is for the drake path, which I am not even sure is really intended for a PC Storm Knight. Can Drakes really hang outside of Aysle? And if not, is it worth 4 perks for a Benefit when you happen to be there? hmm.... Might need some clarity on whether the Drake is protected by the SK's reality carrier wave or not, does breathing fire create a contradiction outside of Aysle? Help?....*edit*

There is also perhaps a concern about a perk in cosm book having a pre-req. that is not contained in either that book for the core rules.

Just my 2 cents,

G

*I suppose there could be some social 8 (or lower) pocket cosms, but I don't recall having seen them yet.
Last edited by graethynne on Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

graethynne
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby graethynne » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:08 am

jhosmer1 wrote:Skald v. Foreshadow

Can anyone tell me how skald isn't better than the psionic power foreshadow?

  • DN 12 scholar for skald while foreshadow is DN 16 precognition.
  • Skald has no chance of disconnection (no star on the pre-req, so not tied to a world law)
The only other difference is that skald has a CHA requirement, but a psionicist might take CHA for telepathy powers, so it's not much of a trade off. Of course, the Psionics perk gives 3 powers, but since we don't have a Psionic cosm sourcebook yet, we have few powers to pick from.

It just seems weird that a bard can do this more easily than someone with mind powers... at the least, I'd expect it to be a contradiction outside of Aysle, where narrativium is not easily found.

Thoughts?


So I thought about this for a minute because on the face of it it does look a little goofy.

But then I realized that skald is 1) an aylish cosm perk and 2) intended for a very specific character concept and 3) is a whole perk (noted in your post) that 4) is an outlander perk (so has the tension with light and darkness perks).

First, any Psionic character can grab foreshadow, and psionics powers are usable everywhere except the LL without a contradiction depending on the exact axiom requirements. Foreshadow itself is usable in the three psionic Cosms plus Ukhaan.

In a more purely mechanical game 2 wouldn't matter at all but in Torg I can't really imagine someone choosing to play a character built all around Skald. It seems more likely that it is there to support someone who was looking to play a skald type character already and to give them something neat for such a character.

The added complexity is that precognition seems somewhat lackluster as compared to the other psi disciplines, at least at the moment. I forget what cosm book comes out after Cyberpapacy, but hopefully it will be either PP or Tharkhold to give us a deeper dive into Psionics (we have miracles, magic, and pulp/weird science already and will get some serious tech in CP). But that's just teh state of play at the moment.

Graethynne

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby QuarrelBlue » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:01 am

graethynne wrote:
Badger3d wrote:Beast Friend seems like a like a week version of Primitive Allure, it doesn’t add anything so why not just use Primitive Allure and Elf as the blockers for getting Drake Friend instead and drop Beast Friend.

Primitive allure only* works against denizens of of the Living Land.
*I suppose there could be some social 8 (or lower) pocket cosms, but I don't recall having seen them yet.

Wait, doesn't Primitive Allure affect nonsentient animals(which cannot form Social-level 8 or more complex society) regardless of their reality?

Badger3d
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Badger3d » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:52 am

QuarrelBlue wrote:
graethynne wrote:
Badger3d wrote:Beast Friend seems like a like a week version of Primitive Allure, it doesn’t add anything so why not just use Primitive Allure and Elf as the blockers for getting Drake Friend instead and drop Beast Friend.

Primitive allure only* works against denizens of of the Living Land.
*I suppose there could be some social 8 (or lower) pocket cosms, but I don't recall having seen them yet.

Wait, doesn't Primitive Allure affect nonsentient animals(which cannot form Social-level 8 or more complex society) regardless of their reality?

Exactly, it specifically says it works for animals from any cosm, never mentions it only works in the living land

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jhosmer1
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby jhosmer1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:03 am

graethynne wrote:But then I realized that skald is 1) an aylish cosm perk


It doesn't have a star by the pre-req, so it is not a contradiction outside of Aysle. Skald works everywhere, while foreshadow is limited to 3 realms as you say. True, only those of Aysle reality can take it, but it still seems a bit much to me.

We're still at least 2 sourcebooks away from a Psi cosm, so I'm a bit defensive of anything that reduces the desirability of Psi compared to Magic and Miracles.

graethynne
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby graethynne » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:46 pm

jhosmer1 wrote:
graethynne wrote:But then I realized that skald is 1) an aylish cosm perk


It doesn't have a star by the pre-req, so it is not a contradiction outside of Aysle. Skald works everywhere, while foreshadow is limited to 3 realms as you say. True, only those of Aysle reality can take it, but it still seems a bit much to me.

We're still at least 2 sourcebooks away from a Psi cosm, so I'm a bit defensive of anything that reduces the desirability of Psi compared to Magic and Miracles.


Right, I wasn't saying it caused contradictions. Just that it was limited to Aylish* characters. Also, by the numbers to spell it out a little more clearly

Skald - full perk, works everywhere without contradiction. Foreshadow - 1/3 of a perk works in 3/8ths of the common cosms without contradiction.

"Without contradiction" seems to be the key here. SKs risk contradiction 1-case contradiction all the time, right? Core Earthers using modern firearms risk it 1/2 the time (LL, Orrorsh, NE, Aylse).

So from a hard balance perspective, if anything, it seems like the weakness of precognition in general is the culprit here not that skald is too powerful. But again, I don't think hard math is the only consideration. Any psychic who wants to take foreshadow can* but only an Outsider from Aysle who screams their way through every fight can take skald. For me, that more than makes up any power gap that may be present.

Graethynne

*and pretty specific ones too.

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Atama
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby Atama » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:53 pm

A transformed Glam Rocker from England would be an awesome skald though.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

graethynne
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby graethynne » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:48 pm

Atama wrote:A transformed Glam Rocker from England would be an awesome skald though.


I love this! Will be stolen!

Graethynne

darrell
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Re: Aysle Sourcebook Q&A Thread

Postby darrell » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:13 pm

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Rabbitball
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Re: Dynamic Map Question

Postby Rabbitball » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:21 pm

Fuzzy wrote:One of these turned up, and it's really a cool idea but also causing some confusion.

"The dynamic map can be set to a
specific goal and will map out a path to get there. If the journey will be eventful, a few landmarks will
be featured, usually related to plot points."

It's a full Arcane item, so it should be pretty useful. The question is what is a "specific goal".

"The lair of a specific monster"
"The place where a particular item is kept"

Or is this a specific known location...

If it's the former, then it's a really powerful item (unless something is scry shielded). It's still limited outside of aisle to 1 KM range due to Magic Axiom 23, but that's still pretty good. I'd probably advocate some limit on it (i.e. ony use once per week, or it's a consumable) to avoid situations where the storm knights literally use it on everything they ever want to find/do, since "a specific goal" is quite broad language. Alternatively, the goal could be made more limited.


Think Dora the Explorer here. "We need to get to the enchanted meteorite! Open the Dynamic Map! (map sings and plots the path) First we need to go to Sherwood Forest, then to the Happy Valley, and then cross the Troll Bridge." (Her map has a quirk.)
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering


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