Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

SichoPhiend
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby SichoPhiend » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:20 pm

In the description for the Cyberglide cyberdeck it states
It is considered Small (–2 to find tests when searched) and can even be hardwired into a cyberlimb for free.

Does this mean that it can be incorporated without purchasing a Trigon integrated weapon mount? Or something else?

It also lists CrashProgram in its additional storage, however I haven't found a description for this program. Was it removed and this reference missed?

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:24 am

TorgHacker wrote:
QuarrelBlue wrote:CSI Socket Upgrade for CSI Eyebomb must be paid separately, so they cost $1500 just to be a concealed grenade which isn't suicidal, right?

If you don't want to get it, nobody's forcing you to.

No offense, only confirming that the Eyebomb is a special kind of cyberware that needs an upgrade(and additional cost) just for intended use.
(But now I'm feeling better with "that's a hold over when we did have limits to how many installs you can have in your eyes." explanation...)

TorgHacker wrote:
QuarrelBlue wrote:MAS Herod IV use a SmartGun attachment which comes standard, but does it mean the cost of SmartGun attachment is included in the price of the gun itself? and, does "taking advantage of the attachment" or "firing with SmartGun feed" require some visual gear like Eyekill or PureSight Glasses, which doesn't exist on Tech 25?

Yes, it's included in the price. As for taking advantage of it:
From the corebook:
"Smartgun attachement: Has no effect on its own
other than to allow the use of smart ammunition
(page 159) with the weapon. The attachment
records footage of the weapon’s targets, and a
connected cyber eye (see Cyberware, page 160)
also sees through the weapon’s sensors."

You mean using smart ammunition is enough for negating -2 penalty on "firing without SmartGun Advantage"?
...Or maybe I should ask, Is there anything Tech 25 or less which can be used for avoiding "–2 to hit if fired without SmartGun feed" penalty, or is it unavoidable until Tech 26?

TorgHacker wrote:
QuarrelBlue wrote:There is Peugeot Seraphim hypersonic VTOL, but no game stat on the table.
The Wrath Cyberdeck has "Flesh App: xxx".
Cyberpapacy Possibility Energy symbol says Aysle.

For these, please use the error reporting link. The reason we use that is so I don't have to go through the book and find out that I've already made the corrections.

I'll try, and I found that "What should it say?" isn't mandatory, but what should I input into "What does it say?" text field when it says NOTHING and that is the problem?
(I also worried if referring the only word in a picture works, but in this case there was no other "Aysle" in Page 83.)

TorgHacker wrote:
Yoric wrote:The rules about Cyberware removal are interesting, but I imagine that they're not telling everything. Removing a CyberEye won't restore your eye and removing your Cyber heart will simply kill you no matter how well you roll the dice, right?

I suspect that this should be mentioned somewhere.

The general rule of thumb is that if a rule doesn't say you get something, then you don't get it.

But it cuts both ways. The rule says you get neither your organic heart regrown nor killed.
(I think it has some cure as an ultra-tech surgery with a medicine test, but then again the cyberpapal technology is very unbalanced and the cure other than a healthy replacement cyberware may only be available somewhere else with advanced biotech, but than again the rule says nothing...)

Yoric wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Yoric wrote:On Cyberware: Trigon Slicers use unarmed combat. What do Trigon Dicers use?

Melee weapons.

Should I file an issue that this should be specified or do you think people (other than me) will find this clear?

It seems like a thing that everyone find it obvious AFTER seeing the answer, but often get puzzled without being specified.

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:42 am

Page 1
Credit has "Original Aysle Design:", but I don't get it.
Does it mean Cyberpapacy Soursebook owe a lot on Original Aysle Design Team, or is it a placeholder until Original Cyberpapacy Design Credit arrives?

Page 1
"Graphic Design: Aaron Acevedo, Jason Engle"
"Graphic Design:" isn't emboldened.

Page 2/ Page 44
TABLE OF CONTENTS says "Wiccans in Real Life", but Page 44 column only says "WICCA". Which should I report?

Page 17
"Trial by Water" says "she floats and is found innocent", contrary to oTorg Cyberpapacy Ordeal by Cold Water("If the accused sinks, and pulls the knot down with him so that it breaks the surface of the water, he is cleared; but if the accused and the knot float, he is found guilty.") or similar historical Earth witch trial. is it an error or an intentional reverse?

Page 31
Combat Package includes Compte DeTox, Compte Endoboost, and Compte Adrenal Booster, Trigon CyberSkel, but how these combination gives immunity to surprise or Flat Footed?

Page 37
The table says Compte’s Clenching Cleats makes "climbing and balance tests are Favored", but the text says "Dexterity tests involving climbing and balance are Favored." Does it work when you have to do Strength test for climbing(i.e. without Climbing Gear)?

Page 33 / Page 38
How does BelleSpectrum cyberware detection works on subdermal weapons?

Page 33
Can CSI Robe-Eye's strangeness concealed with mirrored or shaded glasses?

Page 35
Compte's Stabiliza gives a bonus to "dodge, maneuver, melee, and unarmed defenses", but does it mean it gives bonus only on defense, or only unarmed combat skill bonus is defense-only?

Page 35
CyberHam Synthivoice requires an in-person conversation, not transmissions, but is conversation via GodNet in-person or transmissions?

Page 39
Do Trigon Dicers come as a pair on one install and has Two-Weapons defense bonus?

Page 39
Since there is no Bulky melee weapon, "no heavy weapons or Bulky weapons" size limit of Trigon Integrated Weapon Mount has no effect on melee weapons. is that OK?

Page 81
Can a Spellchecker Cyberdeck user store a spell which needs more skill to learn than one's own and cast it from the cyberdeck?
If someone with magic skill but not access to Cyberwitch Spell list(Spellcaster with White Witch Spell List who somehow got Custom Cyberdeck, Spellcaster from other cosms with access to Custom Cyberdeck Perk, or a cyberdecker with magic skill but no Spellcaster Perk at all) has gained a Spellchecker Cyberdeck, is the stored spell still comes from Cyberwitch Spell List?

Page 27
Witch Familiar is linked to one if 8 Pagan Virtues, but is there any moral code with the associated ability and rules dealing with violations?
(Some virtues are difficult to manage, but without any moral code system the Honorable Witch will be actually good at lies and deceptions.)

Page 27
White Witch Perk has "Prereq: cannot have any Perk related to the Cyberpapacy faith, Cyberware, or Occultech". Does it include Custom Cyberdeck Perk?

Page 43
Does "The spirits don't hate all technology, but they are repelled by cyberware and Occultech, and if the white witch has any installed, their casting tests are Disfavored." rule apply on anyone casting from white witch spell list, or on spellcasters with White Witch Perk?

Page 74-75
Can you fire a MAS God's Wrath without direct Line of Sight using a Hardlight Drone as a spotter instead of the local surveillance cameras?
(I think a Scout Drone fits this role perfectly, but doubtful about Assault or Shield drones, which lacks sensor capability or control flexibility for spotter role...wait, how about Herald Drone?)

Savioronedge
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby Savioronedge » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:54 pm

QuarrelBlue wrote:Page 17
"Trial by Water" says "she floats and is found innocent", contrary to oTorg Cyberpapacy Ordeal by Cold Water("If the accused sinks, and pulls the knot down with him so that it breaks the surface of the water, he is cleared; but if the accused and the knot float, he is found guilty.") or similar historical Earth witch trial. is it an error or an intentional reverse?


I was going to bring this up as well. When I first read this section, my mind immediately said, "That's wrong!" Both real world and Torg history talk about 《The pure water rejects the impurity of the witch》 thus the test was 《If she floats she's a witch; if she sinks she's innocent》with some places having various and sometimes effective ways to keep the innocent from drowning.

Note: if it is the design intent for the trial to be different, there is no reason to change it just because it is different. I considered the research you did into RoCE and figured this had to be intended, but with someone else asking, I had to chime in.

utsukushi
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby utsukushi » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:28 pm

I mean, the intention is perfectly clear, but... cosmically, how does Reverence work, under Familiars? It seems to run into the catch-22 that it's a Cosm-limited Perk, and those all go away when you Disconnect, but it only does anything when you're Disconnected.

graethynne
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby graethynne » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi all,

Just a reminder from a fellow fan that if something looks like a mistake (typo, contradictory text, missing words or information) use the feedback link rather than posting it on the forum. Even if you aren't 100% confident on exactly how to describe or explain it on the form the gist of the guidance I received on the aysle book was "that will get us looking at it". The problem with posting perceived errors on the forums is that it is a nightmare for the team to work out whether the problem has been addressed already, and even once they have sorted that, it used up a lot of time and energy better spent elsewhere.

Other things, like interpretation/intent type questions are (I think, but correct me if I'm wrong) perfectly appropriate to post in these threads (and are more what the intent for them is, though again, if I am off the mark here I apologize).

Cheers all (gonna start feedbacking myself here come monday - bug hunting is fun!)

Grae

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TorgHacker
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby TorgHacker » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:55 pm

graethynne wrote:Hi all,

Just a reminder from a fellow fan that if something looks like a mistake (typo, contradictory text, missing words or information) use the feedback link rather than posting it on the forum. Even if you aren't 100% confident on exactly how to describe or explain it on the form the gist of the guidance I received on the aysle book was "that will get us looking at it". The problem with posting perceived errors on the forums is that it is a nightmare for the team to work out whether the problem has been addressed already, and even once they have sorted that, it used up a lot of time and energy better spent elsewhere.

Other things, like interpretation/intent type questions are (I think, but correct me if I'm wrong) perfectly appropriate to post in these threads (and are more what the intent for them is, though again, if I am off the mark here I apologize).

Cheers all (gonna start feedbacking myself here come monday - bug hunting is fun!)

Grae


This is all correct.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

QuarrelBlue
Posts: 218
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 am

TorgHacker wrote:
fougerec wrote:
johntfs wrote:Honestly, the "possession is permanent" bit seems a little "anti-TORG." TORG seems a game built on hope. Desperate, unlikely hope, but still hope. Plus it kind of kills off the story hook of "The local priest tried to exorcise the demon but failed. We pray you can do better." I think a better consequence of a failed exorcism might be the permanent loss of an add in Faith or Alteration Magic depending on which method was used (which means the possible loss of access to spells/miracle if Faith or Alt Magic fall below their skill minimums). I'd recommend that even if Faith/Alt. Magic falls to 0 that the GM still allow the use of Miracles and Spells just using the base Attribute.

On the other hand though, knowing the potential cost of failure means it won't be undertaken lightly. Far too often a player would simply say "well I guess I know where my next XP is going" if the cost was a simple loss of an add.

This.

Also, characters offscreen are not doing this Dramatic Skill Resolution. Remember that nothing really matters until the heroes are involved...and rules don't really exist in the narrative. The rules are there to adjudicate the player's actions. It's the _hero's_ failure that solidifies the grasp of the entity on their victim. The demon isn't going, "Oh, this NPC is doing a Dramatic Skill Resolution". HAHAHA he failed!

No, it's when the _hero_ fails that things get bad.

Sounds like it's simpler and safer to trick the demon out with a Player's Call.
In other words, "permanent possession" which needs an ritual exorcism DSR should only be applied to something which cannot be broken even with a Player's Call, and that's SOMETHING!

...Considering the limited use of Exorcist, players may simply leave it to outside specialist NPC, like deckers or transport pilots.
(Hoping the new rules to succeed on making PC deckers more enjoyable!)
You have to kill the possessed innocent unless the heroes successfully exorcise the demon? I can almost hear players saying
"Hehe another tragically dying damsel, every GMs' favorite. Let's finish her and mourn dramatically later."
Sorry, but I have seen some Japanese RPG environments and players gotten used to Adventures with Tragic Damsels who inevitably die (or turn to This Week's Monster)...
(I hope that TorgE transparency principle make them a bit motivated by telling them the victim CAN be saved, but before that I must hope that GMs approve that transparency principle...)

*By the way, if the cost was permanent loss of an add players might say "OK then I die and get a better replacement", which I loathe, instead of "well I guess I know where my next XP is going".

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:34 am

Page 74-75
MAS God's Wrath can fire indirectly with remote camera feed, but does this mean negating Cover and Concealment...or more exactly, applying "against air-to-surface fire" Cover and Concealment instead of "against horizontal direct fire" ones?
And, usually firearms come with fully loaded ammo, but does it($600) come with 12 MAS grenade ammo($100 each) fully loaded?

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Spatula
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Re: Cyberpapacy Sourcebook Preview Discussion

Postby Spatula » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:33 am

Seems like it would depend on the nature of the cover and concealment. Though as the grenades are all blast weapons, concealment shouldn't matter much as long as the shooter knows the target's position.


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