Reconnecting Outside of Combat

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Atama
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Atama » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:18 pm

It’s your game so you can make whatever house rule you want of course, but you’re creating a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. The rules already take care of this.

You want a one size fits all rule and that only works if every situation is the same. And maybe at your table it is. If so, fine. If you always end a combat scene with a breather then just have players always reconnect right away. In that case the rule about being able to reconnect every 10 seconds is irrelevant and you can ignore it.

Basically the answer to your question is that 1, 2, and 3 are all correct. Well, 3 is partially correct; you don’t reconnect arbitrarily, it’s just because it bogs things down if you make them roll a bunch of times “just in case”. 2 is correct if you are still in the middle of the action at the conclusion of combat.

I strongly discourage you from saying a player is just disconnected until things get dramatic again (I assume that is what “in anger” is supposed to mean.) The problem is that they lose all gear and abilities that contradict the local axioms. Heck you technically can’t even think in ways that contradict a local axiom. You also can’t spend any Possibilities for any reason. That seems unnecessarily harsh. Being disconnected is a big deal and I wouldn’t push it on players over what could be a large portion of a session.

Again, it’s your table so if that’s what you want to do, cool, I just don’t get why you’d want to.
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Savioronedge
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:20 pm

ZorValachan wrote:The 10 second thing is because the group could still be doing interesting stuff in that scene (like searching for clues, talking to an npc, etc.) and a round is roughly 10 seconds. If the group isn't doing anything, you could handwave... But... In the rules a 1 on a reconnect is a loss of a reality add or transformation. So you could just have the player roll (no need to wait real world 10 seconds) until they reconnect or roll a 1. And while it may take some time... A chance at a transformation could be seen as dramatic.
And it doesn't have to be a 20, in your own example it would be 18+ or a 1. If it was 20, I'd just do even/odd

Being Disconnected is dramatic. Not as much in Eternity as in Old Torg, but reconnecting was easier back then (at least as I remember things). Without the Fight or Flight stimulus of a combat(or other serious problem), I have no problem seeing a disconnected character refusing to do anything until this is shorted out. Thus I am in favor of the OP option 2, roll die after die until the character Transforms or Reconnects. Don't wait 10 seconds real time, just roll until a relevant result comes up...noting the other characters can use cards like Supporter to remind the afflicted of their connection.

If one must have a shortcut, i suggest a comparison roll. In the listed example, the character has a 5% chance of a 1 and a 15% chance of success. This one is easy to see as a 1:3 ratio, so roll 1D20, on a 1-5 something bad happened first, on 6-20 the character Reconnects without serious complications.

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Atama
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Atama » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:24 pm

I forgot another thing... The Everlaw of One seems to be semi-sentient, and there are times that it’s attention is drawn to a situation and other times it ignores it. If you want a plausible explanation for skipping the reconnect, it’s easy to say that now that the action is over it is easy to reconnect.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby ZorValachan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:00 pm

Reconnection in OTorg was not easier at all times. It was based on the differences between axioms of the cosms (yours and where you were). So 2 cosms that were close were easy, but if they were far apart in axioms, it was extremely difficult. A whole chart listed them out.

Also in OTorg, disconnection didn't stop you from spending possibilities, only gaining them. TE is much harsher as you can't spend them to or even use Hero/Drama cards.
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Savioronedge
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:52 pm

ZorValachan wrote:Reconnection in OTorg was not easier at all times. It was based on the differences between axioms of the cosms (yours and where you were). So 2 cosms that were close were easy, but if they were far apart in axioms, it was extremely difficult. A whole chart listed them out.

Also in OTorg, disconnection didn't stop you from spending possibilities, only gaining them. TE is much harsher as you can't spend them to or even use Hero/Drama cards.


In Old Torg a disconnected character couldn't do anything except attempt reconnecting until they succeeded or transformed. But yes, the ability to spend a Possibility on the Reality test made it inherently easier to succeed when needed.

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Arcesilaus » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:19 pm

Atama wrote:I just don’t get why you’d want to.


Well, because I keep reading about players and GMs who think it's fun when characters disconnect in a battle and are forced to improvise weapons and defenses in order to contribute. Sure, it stinks when they can't use Possibilities, but this feels like one of the few times when PCs are vulnerable. I don't see anyone suggesting modifying or reducing the Disconnection rules, presumably because they're part of the fun and challenge of playing Torg Eternity, and aren't super draconian. Clearly, there's something fun about the idea of disconnecting and dealing with the consequences of doing so.

My question is why this particular complication (and roleplaying challenge) is restricted to combat and Dramatic Skill Resolution. Lots of important things happen outside of time measured by rounds, and, though they may not have dice-rolling attached to them, can be affected by someone being disconnected. As you correctly point out, it can affect the way a character thinks, let alone the tools she can use.

I can see a fun scenario in which the wizard disconnects while adventuring in the Living Land. After a battle, the party considers what to do next and attempts to develop an intricate plan. The wizard, still disconnected, can't really lead the planning as he usually does, so someone else has to step up to the plate, while another character has to keep the wizard from simply running into the jungle with a stick, screaming "Let's get 'em!" I'd like to play this out, I think.

Now, I know (I swear I KNOW) that I can play it however I want. And that ultimately it's the GM's call. BUT I have players who read the rules, and they're going to push back on this idea, since, as we know, being disconnected isn't a picnic. I'm trying to marshal some counterarguments in defense of the idea that disconnection sometimes lasts longer than 30 seconds, and sometimes impacts more than just whether you can use your Impact Hammer or have to pick up a potted plant to use as a club. What I want to be sure of, though, is that I'm not missing anything, like rules that already address this, or a potential complication that I'm not seeing.

To be clear, I'm also very not interested in sitting around and watching a player just roll a die until he either succeeds in reconnecting or transforms. Reconnecting (like General Hospital) may be dramatic, but that doesn't make it worth watching.

I hope that makes more sense.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby utsukushi » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:28 pm

Playing on-line, the "Roll to see if you Transform, or to get an idea how long it takes to Reconnect" makes total sense and works just fine -- someone Disconnects during something important, then the important bit is sorted out, and the person in need of checking just tells the die roller to roll a bunch of d20s and sees how many rolls go by before they get a 1 or a high-enough-total-for-success. And then you go back IC and play that out as appropriate. Sometimes that means we just know, "OK, she was a little confused for almost whole minute before things came back into focus, but we're moving on to something three hours later anyway," and sometimes it means you spend some time participating in a conversation while Disconnected before finding yourself again. (Even if "yourself" isn't who you were looking for...)

Tabletop, I can see where it would be more disruptive though. You can't even just roll a handful of d20s, because you wouldn't know what order they were in. Still, I do think that's the RAW, and probably RAI. Since there's always the chance of Transformation, it is always an "interesting" roll, unless you manage to Disconnect in your home Cosm in which case I believe the rules actually do confirm that you'd just drift back to it in a little bit anyway.

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:34 pm

Arcesilaus wrote:
Atama wrote:I just don’t get why you’d want to.


... Reconnecting (like General Hospital) may be dramatic, but that doesn't make it worth watching.

I hope that makes more sense.


Like Utsukushi said, in PbP games we have had more than 1 character still disconnected after combat. The player would go to an out of game channel and make their rolls, and the game would continue.

No, watching 1 player roll die after die after die is not the most fun of the evening, but with cards to use at the right time, GM call on allowing other members to Assist with encouragement (3 other characters becomes a +3), add in a Willpower and a Supporter, and your 18 minimum can get down to a 5 to succeed; and since card play is declared after the roll you don't have to waste them until they matter. If you can successfully roll a D20 more than 5 times without rolling either a 1 or number greater than 5, then your luck is worse than mine; and I don't think that's possible. 5 rolls should take less than 30 seconds to make, and you are back on with your game...unless transformation occurs, but that Possibility is a very important part of the game.

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby ZorValachan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:16 pm

Savioronedge wrote:
ZorValachan wrote:Reconnection in OTorg was not easier at all times. It was based on the differences between axioms of the cosms (yours and where you were). So 2 cosms that were close were easy, but if they were far apart in axioms, it was extremely difficult. A whole chart listed them out.

Also in OTorg, disconnection didn't stop you from spending possibilities, only gaining them. TE is much harsher as you can't spend them to or even use Hero/Drama cards.


In Old Torg a disconnected character couldn't do anything except attempt reconnecting until they succeeded or transformed. But yes, the ability to spend a Possibility on the Reality test made it inherently easier to succeed when needed.

This is wrong. The rule was he could choose to use his action to try to reconnect. He could spend possibilities, play cards, or use any tool (i.e. weapon, spell, miracle, etc.) That was equal or under the axiom of the reality he was in. Page 100 (Torg, not Torg R&E)repairing the link.

Fyi: the reconnection DN range for the original realities was 5 to 21. Or a 0 if you went back to your own.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Wotan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:49 am

Arcesilaus wrote:Now, I know (I swear I KNOW) that I can play it however I want. And that ultimately it's the GM's call. BUT I have players who read the rules, and they're going to push back on this idea, since, as we know, being disconnected isn't a picnic. I'm trying to marshal some counterarguments in defense of the idea that disconnection sometimes lasts longer than 30 seconds, and sometimes impacts more than just whether you can use your Impact Hammer or have to pick up a potted plant to use as a club.

I can imagine some groups might enjoy roleplaying through a period of disconnection but, TBH, if you're anticipating pushback from your players I'd question whether it's something they'll find fun. And, if not, is it good for your game to force this rule on them?

What I want to be sure of, though, is that I'm not missing anything, like rules that already address this, or a potential complication that I'm not seeing.

I don't recall whether it's in the published books or if it's a thing I've only seen said by devs elsewhere, but I definitely remember something about it being assumed, and handwaved, that characters in foreign Realms are periodically disconnecting and reconnecting automatically, but that it isn't dealt with cos it doesn't have an impact on the story.
So you may have players pointing at this kind of issue, and asking why some disconnections (those picked up from rolled disconnects) are more persistent than others. *shrug*
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