Reconnecting Outside of Combat

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:16 am

Wotan wrote:I don't recall whether it's in the published books or if it's a thing I've only seen said by devs elsewhere, but I definitely remember something about it being assumed, and handwaved, that characters in foreign Realms are periodically disconnecting and reconnecting automatically, but that it isn't dealt with cos it doesn't have an impact on the story.
So you may have players pointing at this kind of issue, and asking why some disconnections (those picked up from rolled disconnects) are more persistent than others. *shrug*


It's in the FAQ.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Wotan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:08 am

TorgHacker wrote:It's in the FAQ.

Thanks Deanna, I was pretty certain I'd seen it somewhere. :)
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Savioronedge » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:29 pm

ZorValachan wrote:This is wrong. The rule was he could choose to use his action to try to reconnect. He could spend possibilities, play cards, or use any tool (i.e. weapon, spell, miracle, etc.) That was equal or under the axiom of the reality he was in. Page 100 (Torg, not Torg R&E)repairing the link.


The machine I have my copy of the original in needs a power supply, so I can't look it up at the moment, but I distinctly remember reading the rule "While disconnected, a character can take no action other than attempting to reconnect using his Reality skill." Memory is the worst reference, but this made an impression on me.

For what it's worth, I prefer the old TORG method, because I prefer complicated and more 'realistic' feeling rules. The idea that it's harder for my Realm Runner to Reconnect in Pure CE than in Mixed CP/AY I find jarring...but I understand that Eternity's method is better for keeping the game moving and limiting time spent looking up rules and charts.

Wotan wrote:So you may have players pointing at this kind of issue, and asking why some disconnections (those picked up from rolled disconnects) are more persistent than others. *shrug*


Because, if consequences only matter during combat, you are no longer playing a Role Playing Game, you are now playing something like D&D4E, a table top combat Video Game. I can't believe spending one entire minute working out the consequences for that rare(except in my games) situation where someone has rolled a disconnection outside of combat is that big a distraction. YMMV.

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Kuildeous » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:55 pm

Savioronedge wrote:The machine I have my copy of the original in needs a power supply, so I can't look it up at the moment, but I distinctly remember reading the rule "While disconnected, a character can take no action other than attempting to reconnect using his Reality skill." Memory is the worst reference, but this made an impression on me.


Not that I recall, but I admit this wouldn't be the first rule I screwed up in oTorg if that is the case.

But that would mean that when disconnected in a pure zone, a Storm Knight cannot do anything but try to reconnect, which is impossible in oTorg without a reality bubble, so I feel like the intent was not to lock someone out of the combat when disconnected. The implication is that you can't do anything in a pure zone of a different reality. And if there's a stipulation where characters can still act when within a pure zone, then what makes a dominant zone so different that they cannot act the same as if in a pure zone?

As far as reconnecting out of combat, my PbP group does indeed roll every round because that format works for that. In my home game, I wouldn't want to condemn someone to roll hell, especially if they need to roll 26+ in order to reconnect. Ugh. So when combat ends, I have them make one final roll. If it's not a 1, then they reconnect. Even if it is a 1, they reconnect--technically.

I did have a chart of probabilities of rolling a 1 vs N+ where N is the minimum roll you need to reconnect. I can't find that chart. I didn't really do anything with it, so I'm not surprised I lost it.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:55 pm

The actual word is "may" not "must" i have the physical book in front of me. "As his one action for a round, the disconnected character may generate a reality skill total in order to repair the link". The 2 paragraphs above it explain what a character can and cannot do while disconnected. So there's no reason for that if you can't do anything else. And the paragraphs after talk about how you can wait to reconnect until you get to another realm, which may be easier.

Basically OT you had to use an action for reconnection. You could use cards and Possibilities and soak, but you could not gain possibilities (and in OT that was XP too).

In TE it's a free action. You can play "non-possibility" cards but can't spend possibilities or the hero/drama cards. That's why i like having the reconnection card. Disconnected characters in TE are squishy
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Wotan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:48 am

Savioronedge wrote:Because, if consequences only matter during combat, you are no longer playing a Role Playing Game, you are now playing something like D&D4E, a table top combat Video Game.

Hyperbole? I don't think anyone's advocating that "consequences only matter during combat".
I can't believe spending one entire minute working out the consequences for that rare(except in my games) situation where someone has rolled a disconnection outside of combat is that big a distraction.

Is this intended to sound condescending? Cos that's kinda how it comes across. *shrug*
Nothing wrong with rolling lots of dice if that's what floats your boat, but it's not for everyone. Another way of looking at it is: why bother when a single dice roll does the job adequately? What's the benefit of rolling those extra dice? How does it make the game more enjoyable?
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It does. But, as we play at different tables, this shouldn't be a problem. :)
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Savioronedge » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:54 pm

Wotan wrote:
Savioronedge wrote:I can't believe spending one entire minute working out the consequences for that rare(except in my games) situation where someone has rolled a disconnection outside of combat is that big a distraction.

Is this intended to sound condescending? Cos that's kinda how it comes across. *shrug*
Nothing wrong with rolling lots of dice if that's what floats your boat, but it's not for everyone. Another way of looking at it is: why bother when a single dice roll does the job adequately? What's the benefit of rolling those extra dice? How does it make the game more enjoyable?

It was not meant to be condescending; rather Perspectivist. I am reading the complaint as "this could take a long time to sit through". I might enjoy sitting for 20 minutes watching the dice defy the odds...might...but I highly doubt anyone else would. However, as I outlined above, with cards it should never take more than 5 to 10 rolls, and at 3 to 5 seconds a roll, that's a maximum of under a minute to make a rolled Disconnection matter outside of combat. In my experience, Bill rolling those dice won't take as long as listening to Dave brag about his awesome finishing move during the combat. (Bill and Dave are just random names, not intended to signify any specific person).

I did suggest a single die alternative earlier, and at least one other person has considered that option, arrived at separately. Worst Case Scenario: Attribute 5, Skill 1 in Pure Zone, has approximately a 0.3% chance to Reconnect vs 5% to Transform, approximately 1:16, so roll 1D20→19 or 20 Reconnects anything else Transforms; best case (pretty much only happens on a 1 in the last round of combat) Att 13, Skill 5 in a Mixed Zone is already a 1 die roll, on a 1 transform or lose an add and reconnect and anything else Reconnects. There's not even a need for a chart. The GM can just semi-arbitrarily pick the break point between T:R.

I just can't find the words to explain why or how much I dislike the idea of, "Ok, combat's over so everyone now Reconnects, pick up your cards and discard down to..."

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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Arcesilaus » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:43 am

Savioronedge wrote:I just can't find the words to explain why or how much I dislike the idea of, "Ok, combat's over so everyone now Reconnects, pick up your cards and discard down to..."

This is where i am as well. It seems very clear to me that if you have players auto-reconnect at the end of combat that you are saying Disconnection is a "combat-only complication," and Torg has much better ways to include those.

I also don't want to just sit and watch someone roll, even if it only takes a couple rolls to reach an outcome.

I'd much rather have the player continue to have to deal with the consequences of Disconnection for some period of time, outside of combat. So, I like the idea of allowing a reconnection roll before every roll the player makes, assuming it's for a real action. Real action can mean a lot of things, of course, like Streetwise to buy equipment or Land Vehicles to find the shortest route overland or Persuasion to get past the bouncer at a bar. It doesn't actually have to wait until the next combat.

Anyway ... that's where I'm sitting right now.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:05 pm

One of the keys to Torg Eternity is that it only matters when it matters. And the vast majority of the time, when it matters is when the Drama cards are being flipped in round play.

We've mentioned in the FAQ that reality-rated characters are disconnecting and reconnecting not infrequently out of combat without much fuss. But when the stakes are high and the contradictions start flying (as they usually do) during not just combat, but Dramatic Skill Resolutions, the Everlaw of One takes a much closer look at fixing contradictions.

I can certainly understand the lack of interest in rolling a bunch of times to see if you reconnect or lose reality adds or transform first. In such a case, I do advocate just hand waving the reconnection.

But preventing someone from reconnecting out of round play is against the intent of the system, and definitely playing in hard mode.

As usual, GMs can do whatever they want, but disconnection is pretty brutal in Torg Eternity, and it's not intended to be a long-term thing.
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Re: Reconnecting Outside of Combat

Postby Kuildeous » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:38 pm

While I do kind of miss the old days of people being disconnected long-term in pure zones, it doesn’t fit in this new model. I’m okay with that.

What I miss about it is that Storm Knights were forced to adopt the feeling of the realm. But you know, Torg Eternity doesn’t disallow that. If your players are into the whole role-playing the atmosphere, they’re going to adopt to the realm anyway.

My PbP group has latched onto this very well. When they were in Nile, they felt like they could pull off stupid-crazy moves. When they were in Tharkold, they sized up everyone they met and gave into their ferocious side. They’re in Cyberpapacy now, and they are suspicious of others while feeling paranoid that they’re being watched. And when they move on to another cosm, I’m sure they’ll take to it—even though they won’t be disconnected in the long-term.

As the GM, we could force characters to be disconnected, but the players are also capable of role-playing periodic disconnections. Depends on how the group feels about it.
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