Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Wakshani
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby Wakshani » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:33 am

Yeah, three's where you want to be:

A) Baby wasp
B) Baby got bigger
c) I can fly!

That's a reasonable investment, reasonable power level, and mainly just involves sitting down, getting the stats, and running from there.

(the first companion level, you'll want something around 36 pts in stats and 12 skills, like a normal follower, with the stats dropped a bit for flight and venom, counterbalanced by poor communication and manipulation and, you know, "GIANT FRIGGIN' WASP KILLITKILLITKILLIT!" reactions. :D

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby QuarrelBlue » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:28 am

I'm all for insect animal companions(or non-insect bug companions like spiders, scorpions, centipedes...), but the problem is that Giant Wasp Babies are unlikely to do anything than wriggle and eat the poor sacrifice, paralyzed but still alive!
(Arthropods need molting to grow larger, and wasps metamorphose and grow wings only with the final molting. Darooni Giant Wasps are Living Land creatures so it doesn't necessarily make sense to Core Earth biology, but too much difference may just ruin the concept of "Wasp".)

Can the adult wasp "grow" from experience(actually the experience the rider invested into Wasp Rider Perk) without physically growing larger?
Are newly bonded pair still unstable and less effective than the Threat stats?
Maybe the wasp just after bonding can barely carry the rider and still untrained for fighting with the rider at all?
Or, the rider can get a smaller adult wasp first and after enough training feed it to the larger replacement?(Sounds cruel, but if you want gross savagery...)

...Maybe we can give the rider a flying mount roughly as useful as an ankylosaur(the largest known Living Land mount obtainable with just a Perk, Wealthy) with the first step of Wasp Rider Perk.
(Considering the flight capability, It will be somewhat lighter and less powerful than an ankylosaur to be well-balanced. And the fact that it is an equivalent of a mount rather than an animal companion can affect its combat-capability.)
If proper nerfing still sounds unrealistic for a 5-meter wasp, we can add Beast Rider Perk to the prerequisite, but it may end up making Wasp Scout unreproducible with that Perk.
Again, Beast Affinity can be added to the prerequisite for the additional Perk for full-fledged warrior, as an PC-equivalent of Beast Bond ability.

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Wotan
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby Wotan » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:26 am

QuarrelBlue wrote:(Arthropods need molting to grow larger, and wasps metamorphose and grow wings only with the final molting. Darooni Giant Wasps are Living Land creatures so it doesn't necessarily make sense to Core Earth biology, but too much difference may just ruin the concept of "Wasp".)

The "too much difference" thing is highly subjective though.
I mean, if we're going to get into immersion breaking differences I could point out that the whole idea of a giant wasp is silly, because their spiracles wouldn't be able to extract enough oxygen from the air for the poor critter to survive.
But. Giant wasps do exist in Torg so, if one is inclined to think about these things, the question becomes how does that work?

To my mind the simplest answer is that, despite the superficial similarities, they're not arthropods at all (and why should they be? what with having evolved in an entirely different reality.)*
And if they're not arthropods why should they follow the same life cycle as arthropods?

That being the case, there's no reason why Darooni wasps couldn't have a "young adult" stage in their development. Since this doesn't contradict any canon, and is handy for balancing a wasp rider Perk line, why not go with it? (Because, TBH, there's probably limited appeal in having to roleplay looking after a mostly useless, but extremely hungry, giant, carnivorous larva while one saves up XP for that second Perk!)

*And if you're wondering why they look so similar to Core Earth wasps (other than the size) the *cough* "scientific" explanation would be Convergent Evolution. ;)
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pkitty
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby pkitty » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:20 pm

QuarrelBlue wrote:the problem is that Giant Wasp Babies are unlikely to do anything than wriggle

The people using "Baby" are doing so as a shorthand for "a younger version with lesser stats," not as a literal maggot or whatever newborn wasps are.

(Arthropods need molting to grow larger, and wasps metamorphose and grow wings only with the final molting. Darooni Giant Wasps are Living Land creatures so it doesn't necessarily make sense to Core Earth biology, but too much difference may just ruin the concept of "Wasp".)

Well, it definitely doesn't ruin it for me, but YMMV. I do like the current progression that this thread came up with, and it fits the standard Animal Companion approach (small animal at Alpha, bigger version at Beta), so whether wasps actually "grow" in that manner is (for me) not really a concern.

Wotan wrote:To my mind the simplest answer is that, despite the superficial similarities, they're not arthropods at all (and why should they be? what with having evolved in an entirely different reality.)*
And if they're not arthropods why should they follow the same life cycle as arthropods?

This^

Living Land dinosaurs are basically angry reptiles that bear almost no scientific resemblance to Earth's dinosaurs -- they lack feathers, they reflect species who never came close to coexisting, etc. And the very concept of a "giant wasp" is an impossible one that could not exist if you were just scaling up existing insects, so that's clearly some sort of otherwordly monster who (again) just happens to look close enough to an Earth animal that we use that term.

It's canon that the existence of cosms like the Living Land make scientists bash their heads against the wall. If this perk chain makes biologists cry, I can live with that. :)
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pkitty
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby pkitty » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:58 pm

BTW, as I figure out a fair stat block, here's a breakdown of all of the existing Alpha animal companions:

ATTRIBUTE TOTALS: 37

SKILL ADD TOTALS
Pterodactyl and Raptor: 9
Sabre-Tooth Cat: 11

MOVE
Pterodactyl 8/16
Raptor 12
Sabre-Tooth Cat 14

OTHER
Pterodactyl: Damage +1, Flight
Raptor: Armor +1, Damage +2
Sabre-Tooth Cat: Damage +2

What's weird is that the fully grown wasp has total attributes of just 35, skill adds of +13, and Move of 5/10, which makes it seem at first like it's just an Alpha companion. But then it gets +18 to resist two interactions, a ridiculous attack, and solid armor. So obviously the younger version is going to break from the templates above a bit. IMO lowering attributes in exchange for skill adds should be at least a 2-for-1 tradeoff, and then including some "interaction resistance" adds is another 2-for-1. So what I'm shooting for will be ATTRIBUTE TOTAL 32, SKILL ADD TOTAL 19.
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pkitty
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby pkitty » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm

My attempt at a "small wasp" for the first perk:

Attributes: Charisma 4, Dexterity 9, Mind 4, Spirit 6, Strength 9
Skills: Dodge 12, intimidation (14), find 7, maneuver 11, stealth 10, taunt (12), unarmed combat 10
Move: 5, Tough: 10 (1), Shock: 6, Wounds: 2
Perks: --
Possibilities: Never
Special Abilities:
* Armor: Exoskeleton +1.
* Flight: Speed 10 in the air.
* Stinger: Strength +1 (10), AP 1. Not venomous.

That's 32 points in attributes, 18 points in skills (counting "interaction defense" adds as half*), and what I think is a decent spread of special abilities to compensate for having such low Move.

* Not sure if that's fair. Might be too generous. Should these be lowered?
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pkitty
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Re: Perks to create a Darooni Wasp Rider

Postby pkitty » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:01 pm

pkitty wrote:My attempt at a "small wasp" for the first perk:

Attributes: Charisma 4, Dexterity 9, Mind 4, Spirit 6, Strength 9
Skills: Dodge 12, intimidation (14), find 7, maneuver 11, stealth 10, taunt (12), unarmed combat 10
Move: 5, Tough: 10 (1), Shock: 6, Wounds: 2
Perks: --
Possibilities: Never
Special Abilities:
* Armor: Exoskeleton +1.
* Flight: Speed 10 in the air.
* Stinger: Strength +1 (10), AP 1. Not venomous.

That's 32 points in attributes, 18 points in skills (counting "interaction defense" adds as half*), and what I think is a decent spread of special abilities to compensate for having such low Move.

* Not sure if that's fair. Might be too generous. Should these be lowered?

Just double-checking -- should I take the silence as "no news is good news" and consider this balanced?
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