Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

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TorgHacker
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:15 pm

dev/null wrote:T'would seem like you would require alteration (time) in addition to apportation to make things move more quickly. And this would seem outside the purview of an improvised spell, whereas success determining possible duration of concentration makes much more sense on an improvised spell.


[snip]

To be honest, Improvised Spells are pretty new developments so they're being tweaked. Probably shouldn't have previewed this one. :-)
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:17 pm

I can't comment on the actual product line yet, but...

johntfs wrote:
It might not be a bad idea to do combined source-books like Core Earth/Living Land; Aylse/Cyberpapacy; Pan-Pacifica/Tharkold and Nile Empire/Orrorsh. Don't make me buy Pixaud's Grimiore and a Godnet source-book and a Cleric's source-book, etc. If you want things like spell design,



I can say that the cosm books will not be combined. There'll be one for each.
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby wilcoxon » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:20 pm

TorgHacker wrote:For each spell/miracle/power being Concentrated on, there's a penalty for skill tests involving that kind of power, and Concentration tests.

So it's a soft limit, not a hard limit, and those who are better can maintain more.


Yay! I much prefer a soft limit. That's one of the things that drives me nuts in 5e (hard limit combined with MANY spells being concentration (the two worst are Hunter's Mark and Hex which are core class features so hardly any other spells get used)).

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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby Plageman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:46 pm

From the original line of products what you "needed" was imho all the main cosms book plus the two main technical books (Godnet and Pixaud). But you needed them because the subsystems evolved a lot between the boxed set and the actual release of the books. BTW in France the Godnet was combined with the Cyberpapacy sb but Pixaud was not added to the Aysle sb.

All in all, I think it's complicated to have the Torg core rules to cover all the subsystems as you have to cover magic, miracles, psionics, martial arts, pulp powers, weird science, cybertechnology, occultism and that doesn't cover very specialized "skills" like True Sight, Shapeshifiting or Honor/Corruption. Obviously they will have to not include some of it and develop it in a later book.

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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:25 pm

"Honor" is covered (at least mechanics-wise) in the core book. They're the Light Perks now.
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby Rabbitball » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:44 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
dev/null wrote:
Is the initial limit 1, or is it higher?


For each spell/miracle/power being Concentrated on, there's a penalty for skill tests involving that kind of power, and Concentration tests.

So it's a soft limit, not a hard limit, and those who are better can maintain more.


Is this operating under the One-on-Many rules, or is there a new mechanic to handle such things?
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:35 am

Tweaked but similar.
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby Plageman » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:14 pm

TorgHacker wrote:"Honor" is covered (at least mechanics-wise) in the core book. They're the Light Perks now.

I guess a lot of previous Cosms-specific skills/subsystems are now part of the Perks list making it easier to integrate in the core rules.

I don't know if you can comment on it but I would be curious to know if PErseverance is still part of Orrorsh and thus in the core rules ?

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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:15 pm

Plageman wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:"Honor" is covered (at least mechanics-wise) in the core book. They're the Light Perks now.

I guess a lot of previous Cosms-specific skills/subsystems are now part of the Perks list making it easier to integrate in the core rules.



Yep. Perks solves a TON of problems.


I don't know if you can comment on it but I would be curious to know if PErseverance is still part of Orrorsh and thus in the core rules ?


Will have to wait for the Orrorsh preview.
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Re: Preview #6 - Spells, Miracles, and Psionics

Postby utsukushi » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:53 pm

Aww. I'll miss all the arcane knowledges. And the spell design system, a *lot*. I mean, yeah, it was overcomplicated, but it's by far my favorite spell design system in any game ever. It didn't feel like you were min-maxing game mechanics - it felt like you were freaking designing a spell. It was awesome. I have never in my life felt more like a real wizard than while designing spells in Torg.

That said, I totally get wanting to clear out all the independent sub-systems Torg had. I mean... well. Honestly, I never found them to be that big of a problem. They made it so that, yes, you really had to have the Cosm books, but there were other reasons for that, too, and they helped make it *worth* having all the Cosm books. And for the most part -- the players who were interested in each piece learned that system, and nobody else (even the GM, usually) especially had to. But, the big trend in gaming these days - especially for reviving a system - seems to be simplifying all the ridiculously over-complicated stuff everybody was doing back in the 80's and 90's, and that's... not a bad goal at all.

I DO hope that you guys are... not squashing them so much that they're the same thing? If you see what I mean? Like, well, not to point fingers, but D&D, which also has Spells, Miracles, and Psionics... but they're all *exactly the same*. Priest Spells are just spells cast by priests, and psionics are just spells cast with points instead of daily slots and there's no *flavor* to any of it. In Torg, not only was praying for Miracles very different than casting a spell, but being a magician in Aysle felt very different from being a magician in the CyberPapacy.

I guess what I mean is, I'm afraid it's going to be (or more likely, has been - I know I'm weighing in pretty late in the game here) awfully difficult to simplify them all without losing that. I, for one, really hope that you have enough little differences in both form and function to keep them feeling different, even if that means it has to be a little more complicated.

Hey, wait. Without the arcane knowledges, do Ayslish characters still have their zodiac? Getting that intrinsic Knowledge was an important piece of that. Is that still a part of character creation for Aysle, or is it... gone, or relegated to pure background fluff?

On a related note, I have to admit to having an instinctive flinch from adding new skills to Spirit -- Spirit had very few skills, but they were important ones. But with all Reality-manipulation now being CE-Only, it makes sense. I will admit that my reaction to all Reality-manipulation now being CE-Only is *also* an instinctive flinch -- but I think if it had always been that way, I would have thought it was awesome. It's rare to see the normal Humans looking cool. Earthdawn is the only system I can think of where there's a serious case that the baseline Humans are OP. So I'm pretty sure once that settles in, I'll be all for it.

...Though, speaking as an Atheist, I'm sad to see that piece go. I loved that Atheism was a real power. It was kind of awesome being able to stare down a Cyberpriest and just say, "Nope."


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