getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

ProfessorK
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby ProfessorK » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:07 pm

Every Con TORG scneario I have run has had a different mood, from very dark to very silly.

To me thats part of the beauty of oTorg. You could do anything with it.

utsukushi
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby utsukushi » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:45 pm

Ah, how I yearn for those halcyon days when we thought the Ewoks were annoying...

I actually kind of like Darkness Device, but that doesn't do you any good, either. I was going to suggest looking to dead languages, too. "Tamasa," in sanskrit, suggests darkness, inertia, and ignorance, which is a combination that seems to sum them up beautifully. But Latin has a nice... gravitas, to it. Ex nihilo, nihil fit.

For me, the cross-reality aspects were the coolest opportunity in Torg. I always found it a bit disappointing that you really can't have a cyber-werewolf - they'll disconnect, like, every fifth time they do anything. But you CAN have an elven wizard become interested in firearms and learn how to use a gun. As long as they're careful about where they use it, they can probably get away with it... you know, most of the time.

I do wonder what happens when the non-humans Transform. As one of the devs noted, humans don't turn into edeinos... so what does an edeinos become if she transforms in the Cyberpapacy? <i>Can</i> an Elf Transform to a realm that doesn't have enough magic to even have elves?

Seriously, Disconnection and Transformation needs its own sourcebook. Argh. So many implications that oTorg never even touched on. OK, probably not its own sourcebook, but I would love to see it get a lot more attention than it's had. (Of course, I would love this especially if they do it right. And by right, I mean, how I'd do it. But I won't really know how I'd do it in TorgE until I actually have TorgE, so that might be difficult. Good luck, guys!)

ProfessorK
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby ProfessorK » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

It was pretty well established that an edienos that transforms under the Cyber-papal reality becomes an Eideinos under Cyber-papal world laws. Only non-living things physically transform.

Captain Verdigirs was an eidienos that transformed to the Nile, and he was still an eidienos.

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TorgHacker
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:34 am

MAJT wrote:
I note that Torg Eternity seems to understand this, and seems to have eliminated the siller aspects of the game, as well as streamlined the mechanics. My current group is interested in restarting Torg (more on that later) but I think any game with Elvis or Skippy the Edienos would be a hard sell to them.



You'll never, ever, see Skippy again. :-)


Aysle was another cosm that really didn’t work for us. I love fantasy, but the pictures of centaurs in business suits and dwarves with SMGs ruined the place for me. It sounds like they tried to define the cosm better in this edition, between Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones and Once Upon A Time as their touchstones. I’m not personally a fan of how GoT ratchets the sex and violence up to 11 all the time, but I’d like to see more intrigue and politics in the Aysle noble houses. I always thought Eberron was a reasonable attempt at a ‘magic is common’ fantasy world.



Actually we ended up not leaning on Game of Thrones too much. In the end Torg Eternity is an action game, not a drama, and we wanted to focus more on that. At one point we did consider moving the Law of Intrigue to Aysle but decided against it.


And they’ve already stripped out the in-universe RPG and the goofy stereotypical gamer nerd. I’m actually all for the culture of Core Earth showing interest in the invading realms (I think they had Things magazine, and the more risqué PlayThings version…?). But it doesn’t have to be a silly self-parody either.

Lastly, no more celebrity cameos or real-world guest-stars… unless they’re only there to be eaten by a dinosaur or zombies :)



No, no real world people.

One thing we're going to be touching on to some degree is the fact that this is a major, major war. We're not going full realism here though, because that really would be apocalyptic. Think more total war ala World War 2.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

MAJT

Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby MAJT » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:13 am

TorgHacker wrote:One thing we're going to be touching on to some degree is the fact that this is a major, major war. We're not going full realism here though, because that really would be apocalyptic. Think more total war ala World War 2.


Thanks for that. It always confused me a little that Core Earth people went on with their lives as if nothing was happening, unless they were directly impacted by the war.

Of course, it's a very different world today - especially in terms of communication - than in 1990.

MAJT

Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby MAJT » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:16 am

utsukushi wrote:I actually kind of like Darkness Device, but that doesn't do you any good, either. I was going to suggest looking to dead languages, too. "Tamasa," in sanskrit, suggests darkness, inertia, and ignorance, which is a combination that seems to sum them up beautifully. But Latin has a nice... gravitas, to it. Ex nihilo, nihil fit.


Those are all very good ideas, thanks.

I like terms that suggest something ancient and horrible, evoking ancient curses and Old Testament horror stories.

Of course, they may not have an 'official' name for themselves, but humans might have come up with one.

MAJT

Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby MAJT » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:26 am

utsukushi wrote:
For me, the cross-reality aspects were the coolest opportunity in Torg. I always found it a bit disappointing that you really can't have a cyber-werewolf - they'll disconnect, like, every fifth time they do anything. But you CAN have an elven wizard become interested in firearms and learn how to use a gun.


To each his own, obviously - Torg has no 'One True Way' of playing.

But this edition seems to be cutting down on that, at least initially. This was posted on KS yesterday by US:

Each cosm has a 'thing' that only they (or only one or two others) can do. Tharkold and Pan-Pacifica are good at psionics. The Cyberpapacy and Tharkold have cyberware. Core Earth can manipulate reality. Aysle has Light and Darkness Perks plus high magic, etc.

So at the moment, you can't have an Aysle character who has a pulp power, or a Tharkold character who can manipulate reality.


I think that's a great thing. Characters feel more unique instead of being a mish-mash of everything, your choice of cosm matters more, and it cuts down on the goofiness that was in full swing by War's End.

I loved the tone of the original Torg books and novels, but that pretty much evaporated by the end. As I said, Edienos weren't silly in their original context.

Hawk Knight
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Hawk Knight » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:09 am

As I understand it a starting character is limited to perks appropriate to their own Cosm. So no psionics for Edeinos, no cyberware for core earthers, no weird science devices for elves, etc. However as PC's gain XP and adventure it will be up to the GM whether they will have opportunity to gain perks from other realities. If you, as a GM, don't want cross cosm characters then it's up to you what perks they can earn.

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Gargoyle
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Gargoyle » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:36 am

TorgHacker wrote:
Actually we ended up not leaning on Game of Thrones too much. In the end Torg Eternity is an action game, not a drama, and we wanted to focus more on that. At one point we did consider moving the Law of Intrigue to Aysle but decided against it.



I noticed in the Aysle video that the D&D influence was emphasized, and I found that interesting. I think my biggest problem with Aysle in oTorg was that it was too much like D&D and it struck me as bland. I would spend several minutes describing each realm, but when it came to Aysle, I would just say "It's the D&D cosm" and they would get it, yawn, and move on. It's convenient, but I think that shortchanges Aysle, even in oTorg, but especially in TorgE.

I think a better description for it in TorgE is that Aysle is the cosm of powerful and mysterious magic and an epic struggle of good versus evil. Its main influences include the same influences as Dungeons and Dragons, sources from Appendix N of the AD&D 1st ed DMG: Tolkien, Lieber, and Moorcock, but also it is influenced by the tales of magic, fantasy, heroism, and adventure from movies, books, and tv shows like Harry Potter, Willow, The Princess Bride, and Once Upon a Time, with a dash of courtly intrigue and brutal warfare from Game of Thrones. The epic struggle of good vs evil is inspired from Star Wars.

I've been thinking about these non-D&D influences quite a bit, because I'm at that same point with TorgE, where I'm pitching the game to prospective players, and a quick elevator pitch for each cosm comes in handy to sell them on the setting(s). Just saying "D&D" doesn't really cut it when describing the setting to prospective players, because Torg is such a cinematic game, even though that really is quite awesome if you think about what the inspirations for D&D were.

In particular, I think the Star Wars, Harry Potter, and Princess Bride inspirations can set Aysle apart from D&D and can be useful as descriptions; Aysle is more of a mythical fairy tale than most D&D games with pervasive and powerful magic, yet still grounded by the meta-setting of the Torg Possibilty Wars.

Just my take on it and what I'm thinking of doing with it. I think Aysle is grand enough to support all sorts of adventures and tones.
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Gargoyle

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TorgHacker
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:34 am

Hawk Knight wrote:As I understand it a starting character is limited to perks appropriate to their own Cosm. So no psionics for Edeinos, no cyberware for core earthers, no weird science devices for elves, etc. However as PC's gain XP and adventure it will be up to the GM whether they will have opportunity to gain perks from other realities. If you, as a GM, don't want cross cosm characters then it's up to you what perks they can earn.


This is incorrect. The Cosm limits are not just at the start.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


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