What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

MAJT

Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby MAJT » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:34 am

Spatula wrote:Ah yes, that was me. :lol: The way that Dark Sun was trashed in the very first line of novels for the setting, and how the 1st full adventure was "watch the novel protagonists kill one of the big bads," has left me wary ever after of RPG metaplots.


'Freedom' is probably the worst (and certainly most ironically titled) RPG module ever written. PCs get captured when the story says they do, they escape when the story says they do, and the adventure literally tells the GM to read long passages of the novel to them while they stand around passively observing.

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DerHuthmacher
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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby DerHuthmacher » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:16 am

I am most divided on this topic.

For one part I can understand and approve of the reasons the designers of TE present the Delphi Council the way they do. It's easier to provide new players and gamemasters with a starting platform. And just cause they are (or seem to be) the good guys at this point of the campaign doesn't mean this will stay the status quo later on, as Gargoyle pointed out previously.

Also, Quinn Sebastian being the way he currently is is a funny and admittedly easy way to explain some things.

On the other hand, as has also been pointed out previously, this is your campaign. Make of it what you want. This wasn't different in oTorg and isn't different in other RPGs who use a metaplot. As a very ardent WoDoWoD player and gamemaster I too have experiences with metaplots gone, err, wrong. :D Use what you want, forget what you don't.

Infiniverse - as it had been and what I believe and hope will be again - represents the state of the official game world. This isn't necessarily your game world. I even outright believe there had been no oTorg campaign that mirrored the Infiniverse newsletter one-hundred percent. The metaplot is a tool - nothing less and nothing more - to help you with fresh ideas (if you are in need of them) and to help you with the setting.

Also, please keep in mind that in oTorg at least the metaplot was in no small amount based on what the players decided or did. Did the majority of the groups foil Malraux's plan in adventure XYZ or did the villain succeed?
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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby Kanaris » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:28 am

DerHuthmacher wrote:I am most divided on this topic.

For one part I can understand and approve of the reasons the designers of TE present the Delphi Council the way they do. It's easier to provide new players and gamemasters with a starting platform. And just cause they are (or seem to be) the good guys at this point of the campaign doesn't mean this will stay the status quo later on, as Gargoyle pointed out previously.

Also, Quinn Sebastian being the way he currently is is a funny and admittedly easy way to explain some things.

On the other hand, as has also been pointed out previously, this is your campaign. Make of it what you want. This wasn't different in oTorg and isn't different in other RPGs who use a metaplot. As a very ardent WoDoWoD player and gamemaster I too have experiences with metaplots gone, err, wrong. :D Use what you want, forget what you don't.

Infiniverse - as it had been and what I believe and hope will be again - represents the state of the official game world. This isn't necessarily your game world. I even outright believe there had been no oTorg campaign that mirrored the Infiniverse newsletter one-hundred percent. The metaplot is a tool - nothing less and nothing more - to help you with fresh ideas (if you are in need of them) and to help you with the setting.

Also, please keep in mind that in oTorg at least the metaplot was in no small amount based on what the players decided or did. Did the majority of the groups foil Malraux's plan in adventure XYZ or did the villain succeed?


I agree with all this furiously - including the bits about WoD metaplots over the years!

For us who played oTorg when it first came out and now want to play TorgE having some grey in hair - and a *lot* less time to generate plots and metaplots - I like having something to fall back on, or to stimulate the imagination. Hating an idea can be almost as fruitful a source of inspiration as loving it, in my experience.

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby Kanaris » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:48 am

In terms of realism, I also think that it is unrealistic not to expect some supranational organisation to rise up and co-ordinate the defenseman if Earth. Disparate groups running about harum scaring won't save the Earth.

Deus ex Quin may be a little on the nose for some, but it provides a very handy mechanism for having Storm Knight groups travel the world (rather than be tied to their home country/cosm which is obviously not the idea of Torg). And whilst many Storm Knights would resist quasi-military discipline being imposed on them, as Storm Knights have all faced a moment of crisis in which they chose "good", I'm betting that those that hold the ideals of duty, honour, loyalty and patriotism highest will chose to "enlist" under the banner of an authority like the Council. It would be a bit like all the foreign brigades in the Spanish Civil War.

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby Kanaris » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:54 am

Also wondering if Ulisses Spiele have plans for Germany to rise to the challenge as leader or co-leader of the Free World. It has three realms near its borders but it is easily the greatest power on Earth not subject to invasion and with its government and society largely intact, and its export oriented economy could easily retool for a war time crisis supporting the free world. Mutti Merkel to the rescue!

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby Mike McCall » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:36 am

I played oTorg very little, having been annoyed with mash-up settings when it came out and not figured out that Torg would hit a sweet spot until after it was unavailable. As such, I wasn't even aware of the Delphi Council.

But I'm glad for it now. Certainly, the main book could use to sound a little like the Delphi Council is the only option, rather than the default one, but that's a minor thing. I'm not running a typical campaign. My games are an ongoing series of one-shots (with the occasional two-act when I can't get an adventure done) with a rotating cast. As such, if the Delphi Council didn't exist, I would have had to invent them. If they were the sinister bad guys of oTorg, I suspect I would have polished them up and turned them into good guys. Because my set-up *needs* an overarching group to tell the heroes where to go, since I need to get a full adventure into a 3-5 hour slot, and messing around with motivations and hooks and so on for an hour kills the fun.

On an even more personal level, I like Quinn Sebastian. At this point, I'm not seeing him doing anything except setting up the world that the TorgE developers would have anyway, while allowing some nods to the past? Did Quinn prevent the Still Earth? That's not GMPCage, that's the TorgE crew making a nod at an old adventure that they weren't going to rehash anyway. If they wanted to revisit it, Quinn would have been busy elsewhere. Did Quinn expose Wellington and confirm Ardinay's virtue? That's because in TorgE, you're supposed to be able to trust the Ayslish and Victorians as a base, and that's the devs' way of signalling that to all those oTorg players who would automatically be suspicious of them. Does Quinn Sebastian found the Delphi Council and run around recruiting Storm Knights who have distinguished themselves on Day One? That's because the devs want this to be about a greater combined effort this time, and not isolated Storm Knights doing things. So Quinn changes the focus, and rallies people together. If not him, then someone else would have.

But then, I like Elminster too, so maybe I just have shitty taste. Whatever. It's my taste that my players have to deal with. I'm just fortunate that my taste largely conforms with the book's approach.

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:10 pm

In OTorg, I got the DC book late, so never used them. I had 3 separate groups playing at roughly the same time, so sometimes there were crossovers and a "circle of knights" was formed. As some players moved on, their characters hung around doing 'support'. With TE, I just kept this set up. 6 groups doing their own thing, but helping each other as needed. So the current groups help out the others and get help in return. So I am not using the DC or Quinn. My players also find it cool when they save or get help from their previous character/group.
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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby bchoinski » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:14 pm

MAJT wrote:Why did they use it Torg Eternity? I'd assume it was a simple 'get all the PCs in one place and give them adventure orders' to give a rationale as to why all these different people from different realities chum around and shoot shocktroopers together. It's also there to give them stuff the GM thinks they need, like equipment or plane tickets to wherever they are going. Kind of to act in the way 'M' and 'Q' do for James Bond.

It's one of those things that -while I absolutely see why they did it - I absolutely loathe about the new setting.


I was thinking of calling it UNIT (United Nations Invasion Taskforce) in my game, of which the DC is the American branch.

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby Wakshani » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:14 am

oTorg's Delphi Council was very much the bad guy. They unleashed the Spartans into the Living Land with orders to "Leave no people inside" .... IE, get 'em out if you can, put 'em down if you can't." They worked for a guy who assassinated the previous president and who was just all kinds of bad news. There's a reason I had Quartermain as the High Lord of Core Earth! Just a bad, bad dude, and an awful group of people working with him.

Having that 180 is one of the hardest things to handle about TorgE, with a small secondary dip of "Why is this US group running the world resistance? Dide our Social axiom bip up when I wasn't looking?" Keeping them in America, with other groups for other nations, would have made more sense. It'd make it a tad harder for campaign stuff, since EuroShield or the Glorious People's Revolution Bureau and so on would start to step on one another's toes, but, unprecedented situation can allow for unprecedented response.

But, yeah, I used the Delphi Council, and *especially* the Spartans, as big time bad guys. Stopping them was a regular thing.

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Re: What Did You Use the Delphi Council for in oTorg?

Postby fruitbazooka » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:24 pm

We used it as a vague foil for the Storm Knights, a potential employer, "quest giver" and potential antagonist. In a war and reality torn world PCs encountered well meaning Delphi Cells who were actually helping people, as well as ruthless Spartan squads and corrupt officials.
As for the new version, it's a great hub for the game to start with. A reason for being a group was always the first hurdle for TORG games, unless you were a team all from one realm, or half core earth/half a particular realm (all in the same area when the invasion began, some transformed some didn't) it was tough to come up with non-convoluted reasons to team up. (An Edeinos, a Ninja, a paramilitary soldier and an Elf walk into a bar..)
I hope they give it a little room to move and aren't too absolutist in storyline, tales of corruption and intrigue can be great as can mission based episodic campaigns. So get yourself an organisation that can do both. :P


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