Infiniverse Stopping?

Doc Gordon
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Doc Gordon » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:49 pm

I wish I had the programming skills to do the Infiniverse justice. Of course everyone's going to say, "Oh, OP, there's nothing to worry about. You're presenting a non-starter." But, hey, it's "only a game", right, there doesn't need to be any importance put to the most unique feature of the original game, and of course it could done so much better, but I guess there's a terrible lack of time and programming ability to make it happen. I had a vision of what the original looked like, and I was pretty much dead on with how things worked in a PbM Infiniverse. Now that we have computers and things can be done so much more easily than they used to be, I had a vision of the potential of this Infiniverse, but I just don't see it being met... (sigh).

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Spatula
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Spatula » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:11 am

Doc, I am just seeing complaints and no actual vision of what you think the Infiniverse should be.

Computers have made it easy - filling out an online form is way easier than sending stuff through the mail (which my group never even bothered to do back in the day). We've been encouraged to post stories of our games in the forums, which is also way easier than having to type/write it out and send it in. I don't really see what's missing.

Zackzenobi
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Zackzenobi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:18 am

I kinda miss having a campaign number.

Doc Gordon
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Doc Gordon » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Spatula wrote:Doc, I am just seeing complaints and no actual vision of what you think the Infiniverse should be.
My vision, what I see missing, is a fully interactive map that registered play groups can see as their campaign "world", individually, and then a collective map everyone can see, which is a conglomeration of the "averages" of all the campaigns being played. Player's in a group should be able to see summary's of the adventure(s) they've played through since the beginning of the war. GMs should be able to see new Rumors, Dispatches, and Adventures available for certain areas, whether published by USNA as official, published by GMs on the Infiniverse DTRPG page, or free works made available for their games. Changes would be made through filling out forms that modify the actual map and help produce the adventure summaries I mentioned a couple of sentences ago.

I also want to see notifications for when a new zone comes up, or when a zone goes down. How do we accomplish any of these things?

Multiple groups performing in an adventure over a certain time-frame -regardless of the numbers of groups and/or players- or a certain number of plays on an adventure, help determine the outcome from that adventure for the big map, though the individual effects on a group's world take effect for that group immediately. Once the number of iterations on a map are completed, or the time-frame elapses, whichever comes first, the accumulated stats are averaged and determine what happens to the big map, including zones taken down, new zones, and strategies can be set by USNA for the High Lords, or at least a survey could be built for registered GMs to answer and determine the future. At the end of each year of the war -mind you, this might take several years real-time and allow USNA to publish all sorts of things for Torg, commit all sorts of Kickstarters that would then be supported due to each group having a tangible effect on the world-, individual group maps are updated over the course of the next year by the adjustments made in the previous year. It's possible those maps could also be updated on a month-to-month basis. Potentially twelve adventures per year per group; all twelve adventures would NOT be required, but...

- USNA names an adventure that will have a direct effect on the big map,
- Groups get to decide whether they're going to continue playing adventures on their personal maps and logging the results for their individual worlds, which eventually will have an effect on the big map, as noted above, and vice-versa, OR whether they're going to play the named adventure to have an almost immediate effect,
- USNA sets the adventure for between two months and eight months,
- At the end of this time-frame the effects of the groups -including Possibility-counting- that have played the named adventure are averaged and an outcome is determined,
- USNA announces another adventure and time-frame, and the war goes on. Now, there could be several adventures, perhaps one announced each month, provided each year -again, whether provided by USNA or an approved third-party or player-written adventure- for groups to participate in as they wish.

Obviously, statistics on individual's and equipment and monsters would be limited to the adventures, themselves, and would not be placed into any sort of database for the big map, and the server necessary to track the numbers would track ONLY those numbers, not individual graphics or maps or anything like that. As for tracking individual players, their first names and their character names, the Possibilities they use and the Experience/Possibilities they gain through the game, and any special requirements for the group -similar to the way they're tracked by USNA, now- to complete the adventures, including their successes and failures and points -assigned in the background of each success or failure option- are all tracked and have an effect on the group map, if only logged for the group and, eventually the big map.

This is what I want to see, and what I know is possible? We just need to find someone with the actually programming skills. If a full world map could be done like this in Google, as with the present world map -which is wonderful-, then half the work is already done.

Any questions?

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Spatula
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Spatula » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am

Doc Gordon wrote:My vision, what I see missing, is...

Very ambitious! That would truly be something great to see. But what you propose would, in my estimation, take at least 6 months of full-time labor for an experienced engineer, plus ongoing bandwidth costs. So, awesome idea, but I don't know who outside of WotC has those kinds of resources.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:47 pm

Spatula wrote:
Doc Gordon wrote:My vision, what I see missing, is...

Very ambitious! That would truly be something great to see. But what you propose would, in my estimation, take at least 6 months of full-time labor for an experienced engineer, plus ongoing bandwidth costs. So, awesome idea, but I don't know who outside of WotC has those kinds of resources.


I can't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of:

"Disappointment comes from expectations unrealized".

The fact of the matter is that heading into the corebook Kickstarter, the question wasn't "What form will the Infiniverse take?" but "Are we even going to do an Infiniverse?" There's a reason it was a stretch goal. It certainly wasn't something that was going to happen regardless.

It does take resources to run something along the line of a history with community input. Not just in the form of money, but time. Specifically (at least at the moment) mine or Darrell's. This isn't my dayjob so if I was responsible for handling that, I'd have to cut back on something...and when it really comes down to it, I do this for fun (which admittedly I do get paid to do) but if it ever feels like a 'job' I won't do it anymore. And since my 'fun' comes from a) interacting with people and b) writing the material, actually administering an Infiniverse for me would certainly start feeling like a job. Especially in the winter when my dayjob becomes more hectic and I often work extra.

With Darrell, we want him producing words as much as possible. :)

Additionally, we decided to have all the cosm books set at Year One because we knew the pace of release of the cosm books to be anywhere as fast as Original Torg. Which meant that the actual amount of input from the fans would be reduced anyways (though as we've shown, not eliminated by any stretch...southern Missouri is free and there isn't an alliance with a Goldsun tribe specifically because of player decisions).

We're still in the 'setting the table' phase. Then we'll pull the tablecloth out and see where things fall in Year Two and onwards. And once we get to that point, the amount of production needed will certainly decrease, and THEN we can really start to dive into looking into getting more stuff into the Infiniverse.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

Taliesin
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Taliesin » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:57 pm

I guess I could do a couple of these things using MySQL, PHP and the Google API (with probably a bit of Javascript). I have some programming skills, and I often create small applications for my own use, but I'm not a qualified programmer and I do it mostly as a hobby. So I'm not promising anything, but I could give it a try on my spare time and keep you updated. Oh and, as Spatula said, don't expect anything solid within the next 6 months...

Doc Gordon
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Doc Gordon » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:46 pm

I understand a "setting the table phase" and "this is my hobby, not my life", and I'm grateful to Taliesin -and anyone else willing to put time toward a project such as this-, but I'm just extremely eager to see Infiniverse done justice. Our wedding ceremony -Sarah and I- is June 16th, and some funding should free up, then. I have older experience with HTML and PHP, and would be willing to dedicate some resources to this, if we can get something together. This DOES NOT need to be a pay-to-play sort of thing, and I'm not going to ask for more than a great game from USNA, but I feel like this is something that SHOULD happen. I only wish I had more resources, had them now, and could get something started right away.

I also wish I would actually receive response notifications; I have checked all my settings for receiving notifications -I've run SEVERAL phpBB forums, before- and to the best of my knowledge they're all correct.

Doc Gordon
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Re: Infiniverse Stopping?

Postby Doc Gordon » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 pm

Finally, response notifications!!! Brilliant. Thank you USNA! :D


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