Page 4 of 8

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:57 am
by mystic101
Put me in the "Yes" column for biggish-to-giant kaiju as rare, plot-specific threats along the lines of the Bor Aka, and the "No" column for Pan-Pacifica having giant mecha. I'd be okay with small mecha, say an eight-foot-tall battlesuit that's equivalent to Ripley's forklift mech in Aliens, or even a big 30 footer that's the PP equivalent of a tank, only much more capable of being easily deployed into urban areas, since it can walk around and stuff, to more easily navigate streets and building exteriors.

However, that's only for vanilla PP. I can see a way for giant mecha to be introduced into the game: A Nile Empire/PP mixed zone.

Say, around Year 2 or 3, when the High Lords' alliance has dissolved, and they get into open warfare with each other. Then Mobius drops some stelae into a place like Hong Kong, similar to what Gargoyle's doing in her home game.

In that situation, I could see super-powered Nile wu xia martial artists confronting grim and gritty, hard-edged PP martial artists; and giant PP kaiju squaring off against weird science-contructed giant mecha. With Storm Knights caught in between, maybe having to support one side against the other temporarily, or else being caught up in big three-way battles. That'd be one way to get the SKs into giant mechs. They either have to "team up" with Mobius against a Godzilla-level kaiju, and Mobius lends them a giant Voltron/Red Ronin-style robot, or they steal it from Mobius in the course of a three-way confrontation. The mech's power source could then burn out after that single battle, with the Delphi Council not having an immense stockpile of eternium sufficient to restart it, or it could come equipped with a failsafe self-destruct that takes it out after the battle, in case it "fell into the wrong hands", which it did.

Voila! Kaiju vs. giant mechs, with no compromises to any one reality's genre.

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:44 pm
by Atama
I think I read a suggestion on the boards once that Kaiju made sense in a LL/PP mixed zone, I always liked that idea.

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:17 pm
by Staffan
Brandon_C wrote:The biggest problem I see is that I don't think their suits were Tech 24. I think transformable mecha would be pushing Tech z5 and combinable mecha are likely beyond that.


Frankly, I'm thinking that there is no tech axiom where mecha make sense, combinable or not. Anything you can do with a mecha, you can do better with a same-axiom tank or other non-humanoid vehicle.

So to make a cosm with mecha, you probably need a world law to force their existence.

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:43 pm
by hawaiianbrian
Staffan wrote:Frankly, I'm thinking that there is no tech axiom where mecha make sense, combinable or not. Anything you can do with a mecha, you can do better with a same-axiom tank or other non-humanoid vehicle.

So to make a cosm with mecha, you probably need a world law to force their existence.


That was my problem with Pacific Rim, and other mecha stuff in general. Bipedal robots would be really unlikely, as at that scale, wheels or multiple legs would probably be better, not to mention easier to balance.

And I simply don't believe that the most optimal way to handle a kaiju is to have the giant robot wrestle it, or even punch it. Heck, even in Pacific Rim, when they can't make any headway against the really tough one, they pull out a sword (though I was like, "Wha? Why didn't they use the sword from the beginning?!").

Nothing outside of a weird World Law will ever convince me that missiles or lasers are less effective against kaiju. :roll:

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:12 pm
by Zackzenobi
Plus there is the problem of Physics. According to one science article it would take 64 cargo helicopters to move a mecha...

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:02 pm
by Atama
Who says different Realities might not alter the square-cube law? :D

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:50 am
by ryric
We have "primitive" power armor suits in the real world today, so I'm all for something in the form of powered armor at Tech 24, probably as a Perk tree a la Dragon armor for dwarves. I'm not in favor of building-size mecha at Tech 24; maybe if a certain sci-fi reality makes an appearance they could work.

Occasional kaiju battles are fine, and seems like a fine time to let the PCs have tanks and planes on their side. A tank, shooting with a PC's stats behind it can inflict truly nasty levels of damage. I'm not worried about Rifts-level scaling issues, because Torg already accounts for that in its logarithmic number scale. If you want "Deityzilla" to be 100 times as tough as a T-Rex just increase its Strength by 10.

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:38 am
by Gargoyle
hawaiianbrian wrote:
Staffan wrote:Frankly, I'm thinking that there is no tech axiom where mecha make sense, combinable or not. Anything you can do with a mecha, you can do better with a same-axiom tank or other non-humanoid vehicle.

So to make a cosm with mecha, you probably need a world law to force their existence.


That was my problem with Pacific Rim, and other mecha stuff in general. Bipedal robots would be really unlikely, as at that scale, wheels or multiple legs would probably be better, not to mention easier to balance.

And I simply don't believe that the most optimal way to handle a kaiju is to have the giant robot wrestle it, or even punch it. Heck, even in Pacific Rim, when they can't make any headway against the really tough one, they pull out a sword (though I was like, "Wha? Why didn't they use the sword from the beginning?!").

Nothing outside of a weird World Law will ever convince me that missiles or lasers are less effective against kaiju. :roll:


That's sort of the point of world laws though, to reinforce these tropes. :)

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:00 am
by Staffan
ryric wrote:We have "primitive" power armor suits in the real world today, so I'm all for something in the form of powered armor at Tech 24, probably as a Perk tree a la Dragon armor for dwarves. I'm not in favor of building-size mecha at Tech 24; maybe if a certain sci-fi reality makes an appearance they could work.

I have no problem with roughly person-sized power armor รก la 40K's Space Marines, or the Iron Man suit. It's the Gundam/BattleMech-sized ones or larger that make no sense. The AMP suits from Avatar (not the airbender one) are about as large as is reasonable.

Re: Kaiju and Mecha in Pan-Pacifica

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:01 pm
by Atama
ryric wrote:Occasional kaiju battles are fine, and seems like a fine time to let the PCs have tanks and planes on their side. A tank, shooting with a PC's stats behind it can inflict truly nasty levels of damage. I'm not worried about Rifts-level scaling issues, because Torg already accounts for that in its logarithmic number scale. If you want "Deityzilla" to be 100 times as tough as a T-Rex just increase its Strength by 10.

An M1 Abrams tank is a far cry from Voltron.