Cyberpapacy Detective

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Atama
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby Atama » Fri May 24, 2019 3:57 pm

Zackzenobi wrote:So no official PIs. Ok but I can see somebody hiring an ex church cop, black ops, or pre-invasion PI to Investigate a church cover up right? He just wouldn't be state sanctioned right?

After watching Blade Runner, PI just feels like such a staple of the genre.

I mean the downtrodden need someone they can turn to when the church cant or wont do anything about injustice in the slums.

If you are getting involved in gathering information in a non-sanctioned way (and keeping that info from the church), working under the radar for the downtrodden, and investigating church misdeeds you’re not really a PI. You’re part of the Resistance. You can stat up the character like a PI and give them the “hard-boiled detective” kind of attitude and background but you’re really a criminal operating outside of (and necessarily against) the church and its despotism.

Which is totally in keeping with the theme of the Cyberpapacy to me. You can even call yourself a PI, you just won’t be one officially (or openly), at least not in the Cyberpapacy. You better not be putting up a sign or handing out business cards or otherwise identifying yourself as a PI in public or I'm sure church officials will be bringing you in for “questioning”.

Outside of the Cyberpapacy you could probably identify yourself as a PI without concern (except in Aysle or the Living Land where they’ll have no idea what that is).
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby Kuildeous » Fri May 24, 2019 4:18 pm

Honestly if the Cyberpapacy archetypes don't include an Unlicensed Private Eye, I might be a little disappointed.
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby TorgHacker » Fri May 24, 2019 4:51 pm

Zackzenobi wrote:So no official PIs. Ok but I can see somebody hiring an ex church cop, black ops, or pre-invasion PI to Investigate a church cover up right? He just wouldn't be state sanctioned right?

After watching Blade Runner, PI just feels like such a staple of the genre.

I mean the downtrodden need someone they can turn to when the church cant or wont do anything about injustice in the slums.


More on this...

If you were to convert over the archetype from Blade Runner to the Cyberpapacy, Decker would be an Inquisitor. He's a police officer Inquisitor of the San Francisco Police Department Church who is sent to investigate, persue, and eliminate replicants heretics.

Now, as far as the PI goes, one thing that's really important to know about how we're handling the Cyberpapacy is that in Torg Eternity we have TWO *punk realities in play. So I want to reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally have each have a strong focus. Obviously the Cyberpapacy is going to be cyberpunk, and Pan-Pacifica less obviously will be biopunk, but in both realities there is the good "little guy" up against "the man" Church/corporations (also why corporations are going to be a LOT different in the Cyberpapacy this time around).

So the PI archetype TOTALLY fits in in Pan-Pacifica. Remember how I keep repeating that Pan-Pacifica is going to be more than just the Contagion... this is one of those ways.

Some of this won't really make a lot of sense until you see the sourcebook and it's still development though.
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QuarrelBlue
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sun May 26, 2019 5:11 pm

TorgHacker wrote:There is no need for private detectives, for the Church knows all, and besides, sneaking around investigating people when you're not part of the Church makes people suspcious. Very, very suspicious. ;-)

Somehow it sounds like "Anyone other than sheeple is a criminal", and reminds me of Japanese Sci-Fi novel "SF Suikoden(Sci-Fi Shui-hu chuan)" with re-incarnated Wu Song in a futuristic planet(which has Automated Bureaucrat Examiner horribly went wrong) saying like "I inherently loathe injustice and became a policeman, but I've learned that in this planet a man who loathes injustice becomes a thief, not a cop, so I switched sides."

Actually I'm concerned for re-inventing the Consulting Detective Archetype from oTorg Cyberpapacy Sourcebook, a Poirot-styled investigative gentleman with moustache(Poirot himself was a Belgian in Britain, though).

Maybe the fact that Cyberpapacy is against private detectives actually justifies a private detective Storm Knight...the oTorg CP SB also had a Psychologist Templete who is agianst the Cyberpope just because the Cyberchurch declared psycothrapy heretical, and the hostility toward private eyes can be seen as one of the evidence that the Cyberchurch has something to hide from people's eyes.

Istrian wrote:So if you wanted to be a really private PI you would need to advertise on the Dark Web? Dark GodNet ? DarkNet ? DevilNet ?

GodNet Hell has its demons, but I don't trust them for safety of independent folk. I've heard oTorg GodNet has poorly monitored area imaged as Catacomb, and vast unknown and unsafe area called The Deep...If TorgE GodNet has its equivalent of Limbo, it can be used by some daring soul...unless some jack-in priests decide to reenact the Harrowing of Hell.

TorgHacker wrote:If you were to convert over the archetype from Blade Runner to the Cyberpapacy, Decker would be an Inquisitor. He's a police officer Inquisitor of the San Francisco Police Department Church who is sent to investigate, persue, and eliminate replicants heretics.

Maybe Guy Montag from Fahrenheit 451 and John Preston from Equilibrium fit the same Archetype?
(By the way, the first strikethrough seems to be going the wrong way.)

TorgHacker wrote:In all seriousness, the Police State is very tight. The Church brooks no competition.

Doos it still use HOGs(Hands Of God, oTorg French ultra-right groups working for the ancient way, including Nazi sympathizers) or secular Cyberknights like Pierre DeVris(not to be confused with Magna Veritan crusader knights like Hospitallers, "bought" street punks recruited and enhanced by the Cyberchurch)?

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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby TorgHacker » Sun May 26, 2019 6:34 pm

Cyberpapacy is still in development, so I really don't want to go into what is, and isn't in there.

Except that some clues are in the Relics of Power adventure. ;-)

I will say though, that the Original Torg Cyberpapacy was written as if it had a cyberpunk setting overlaid on top of a medieval theocracy. Which is actually what happened in the story. But in Torg Eternity, the cybernetics angle has been part of the reality for a long time, and the economy is not the same.

But like I said, it's still in development.
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johntfs
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby johntfs » Sun May 26, 2019 7:33 pm

Social 18: Capitalism, socialism, communism drive national economies. Theories of the subconscious
and collective unconscious emerge.

Figure that since The Church basically is the government, the Cyberpapacy is driven by socialism in the sense that "the government owns the means of production." Your food is grown on Church farms. Your vehicle was made in a Church factory. That nifty new Cyber-arm was made in a Church plant and then attached to you in a Church hospital.

At the same time, though, the CP is still two points away from Social 20: Pluralism rises, balancing diverse factions and cultures within a single society. Large bureaucracies and welfare become sustainable.

So, while The Church seems to be a monolithic structure, it's more likely to be a whole bunch of other structures combined together. Figure at the base level you'll have a parish, with a priest who is in charge of that local area. Then you'll have a bishop who is in charge of a group of priests. Then maybe an archbiship who is in charge of a bunch of bishops. Then a Cardinal in charge of some archbishops. Finally the Cyberpope is in charge of the Cardinals.

The thing to consider is that large bureaucracies ala the 20th century aren't supported yet. If the Cyberpope issues an edict, the edict goes to his Cardinals, who send it to their archbishops, who relay it to their bishops who tell it to their priests who pass it on to their congregations. Stuff gets done, but not necessarily efficiently or at least not nearly as efficiently as it would be at, say Social 24-26 which is where one would normally find of Tech of 26.

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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Mon May 27, 2019 10:06 am

I agree with the above. But priests, bishops et. al. have a large amount of freewill to do what they want in their own fiefdom.

I would imagine there would be a great deal of infighting for the cyberpopes favour.

On top of that, the 'Cycber-Arm' (pun intended, but the guys responsible for R&D & production of cyberwear), that is controlled by a cardinal, would have a large degree of autonomy.
Same for the inquisition, the church police, etc. Etc. They would all have absolute power within there spheres of influence, causing the social axiom to stagnate as nobody is working together.
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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:13 am

I'm looking forward to the new TorgE Cyberpapacy with more integrated cybertechnology, but I hope its 18 Social Axiom (and the fact that the Cyberchurch theocracy is an obsolete and reactionary "Ancien Régime" even under that Axiom) won't be forgotten.
(And the two important historical motifs more than just "medieval": the French Revolution and the French Resistance)

For now, the new TorgE Cyberpapacy looks like "dogmatic theocracy with cybertechnology is strikingly similar to thought-policing orwellian dystopia", and I'm yet to judge what kind of wonder comes from it.

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Re: Cyberpapacy Detective

Postby johntfs » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:53 pm

QuarrelBlue wrote:I'm looking forward to the new TorgE Cyberpapacy with more integrated cybertechnology, but I hope its 18 Social Axiom (and the fact that the Cyberchurch theocracy is an obsolete and reactionary "Ancien Régime" even under that Axiom) won't be forgotten.
(And the two important historical motifs more than just "medieval": the French Revolution and the French Resistance)

For now, the new TorgE Cyberpapacy looks like "dogmatic theocracy with cybertechnology is strikingly similar to thought-policing orwellian dystopia", and I'm yet to judge what kind of wonder comes from it.


The Cyperpapacy is a thought-policing orwellian dystopia, it's just that they're not really all that good at it. For the most part they don't really have to be. Most people will follow the church line and Ords that don't will tend to pop up on the Church's radar pretty quickly. Plus, remember the Law of Suspicion. The Church will be getting lots of "false positives" as angry neighbors turn in each other or those that have offended them ("That sufflee she sold me fell flat! She must be a witch!")

One of the problems with stopping the 9/11 attacks was the sheer torrent of data and the difficulty of separating out relevant facts ("These guys are taking piloting lessons but don't care to learn how to take off and land a plane") from irrelevant ones ("That lady who owns a 7/11 said I tried to shoplift a Slurpee. She's a terrorist!") Now, consider the even more massive amount of data the Church accumulates with its technology and pair that with a 16th-17th century Social axioms and you start to see the problem.


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