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Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:14 am
by GeniusCodeMonkey
If anything I think the UN would be the only organisation to oppose the high lords on a global scale. Think of all the peacekeepers in various localities; knowing that reality is at stake via Quin, they would become the first true world army. The various organisations within the UN would help with refugees, food distribution, health and of course spread CE social axiom to those that don't support it. If anything they would become more efficient without all the politicians getting in the way.

Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:51 am
by mistervimes
GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:If anything I think the UN would be the only organisation to oppose the high lords on a global scale. Think of all the peacekeepers in various localities; knowing that reality is at stake via Quin, they would become the first true world army. The various organisations within the UN would help with refugees, food distribution, health and of course spread CE social axiom to those that don't support it. If anything they would become more efficient without all the politicians getting in the way.


I came here to say the same thing. I think the UN would become more proactive and useful. As for the HQ, no where is perfectly safe in the world of the Possibility Wars, but, considering how things went in Israel, Tel Aviv might be the best spot.

Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:15 am
by Greymarch2000
The Social axiom is kind of a weird one when you think about it on a global scale. In Core Earth (and PP and Tharkold) the concepts behind the UN work just fine and a "UN-in-Exile" somewhere would be able to co-ordinate a host of things beyond the ability of many of the invading realms. Sure when it came time to implement these objectives agents would be entering realms and giving plans out to people that can't comprehend the amount of planning it took to enact them, but would still be able to perform the specific objective just fine. They don't even need to know it's part of a greater operation.

I've always been telling my players that Core Earths biggest advantage in the Possibility War isn't even the Law of Glory or any of that, but rather the ability to quickly co-ordinate and move forces across the world. To people from Orrorsh or the Nile Empire it must seem like magic the way Core Earth is able to quickly react and adapt to situation, use satellite surveillance and instantly communicate. The high Social axiom is often overlooked I feel.

That said, the UN does provide another option. The devs have been clear from the beginning the the Delphi Council will not ever turn out to be the "bad guys". Players can always trust them. But no such promise was made about the UN. With the full organization being left in shambles whatever version is stitched together will be a shadow of its former self and probably filled with strong personalities that may not have been quite as vetted as previous members from their respective nations. Plus the aforementioned interference from Tharkold, Pan Pacifica and Cyberpapacy and what to do with nations that have been wholly consumed in Africa, there's plenty of opportunity for intrigue and backbiting with the "new" UN.

Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:57 pm
by GeniusCodeMonkey
Greymarch2000 wrote:The Social axiom is kind of a weird one when you think about it on a global scale. In Core Earth (and PP and Tharkold) the concepts behind the UN work just fine and a "UN-in-Exile" somewhere would be able to co-ordinate a host of things beyond the ability of many of the invading realms. Sure when it came time to implement these objectives agents would be entering realms and giving plans out to people that can't comprehend the amount of planning it took to enact them, but would still be able to perform the specific objective just fine. They don't even need to know it's part of a greater operation.

I've always been telling my players that Core Earths biggest advantage in the Possibility War isn't even the Law of Glory or any of that, but rather the ability to quickly co-ordinate and move forces across the world. To people from Orrorsh or the Nile Empire it must seem like magic the way Core Earth is able to quickly react and adapt to situation, use satellite surveillance and instantly communicate. The high Social axiom is often overlooked I feel.

That said, the UN does provide another option. The devs have been clear from the beginning the the Delphi Council will not ever turn out to be the "bad guys". Players can always trust them. But no such promise was made about the UN. With the full organization being left in shambles whatever version is stitched together will be a shadow of its former self and probably filled with strong personalities that may not have been quite as vetted as previous members from their respective nations. Plus the aforementioned interference from Tharkold, Pan Pacifica and Cyberpapacy and what to do with nations that have been wholly consumed in Africa, there's plenty of opportunity for intrigue and backbiting with the "new" UN.


Interesting idea, but if you think about how the social axiom works, lower axioms needs direct rule and a person to organise clans, states etc. Higher axioms on the other hand become much more about individuals becoming self organised for the benefit of the whole (the whole being the world in this example). The UN is already (partially) there; the politicians currently give direction to the UN, but individual department's and the people within them already have a willingness to help the world. Remove the politicians and you still have the people on the ground who believe in the betterment of mankind and the world (but now with potentially no affiliation to a single country but to CE as a whole). Add invaders from another reality and that just strengthens that belief. I wouldn't be surprised if the invasion actually caused the social axiom to increase by a point just on this premise.

I'm sure there are still people with the outmoded concept of the betterment of their own country when they should be thinking about the betterment of the whole of Earth when it's in danger.

Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:54 pm
by OldCoot
GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:Interesting idea, but if you think about how the social axiom works, lower axioms needs direct rule and a person to organise clans, states etc. Higher axioms on the other hand become much more about individuals becoming self organised for the benefit of the whole (the whole being the world in this example). The UN is already (partially) there; the politicians currently give direction to the UN, but individual department's and the people within them already have a willingness to help the world. Remove the politicians and you still have the people on the ground who believe in the betterment of mankind and the world (but now with potentially no affiliation to a single country but to CE as a whole). Add invaders from another reality and that just strengthens that belief. I wouldn't be surprised if the invasion actually caused the social axiom to increase by a point just on this premise.

I'm sure there are still people with the outmoded concept of the betterment of their own country when they should be thinking about the betterment of the whole of Earth when it's in danger.

I see two issues working against the UN as a vital response to the invasion:

(1) The UN is divided against itself at the very top, and would have to be completely restructured. It is true that the social/cultural programs would probably still function, and could definitely perform some vital tasks around supplies, coordination and inspiration. But no major military operation against Pan-Pacifica or Tharkhold can get past the Security Council veto by Russia or China - and if Malraux manages to get the French seat under his control (which seems very plausible to me, given his initial invasion method), then no major UN military operation will happen against the Cyberpapacy either.

There are alternatives - NATO is there for the Europe area, though it probably be dominated by Germany (which will probably have to turn itself into an armed camp (again?) to resist invaders. In any case, NATO has the basic structures and philosophy to organize international efforts. There are other similar regional organizations that could readily step up in the face of the situation.

Over the long haul, I think it very likely that an alternative UN-like structure would be created, one that includes only the 'free' nations - it might even have all the same rules, just a different core membership at the top.

(2) There are so many invasion zones - every continent except Australia has huge sections under enemy control by Year One. And those include nearly all the major manufacturing regions (and the armies they support) from pre-invasion Core Earth. Most people would cooperate (to some extent) to save their own region before committing in large numbers to go fight somewhere else. Now, Core Earth does seem rather more hopeful and optimistic than 'real' Earth, and with Storm Knights doing (literally!) miraculous things, they'd be a great source of inspiration for those who would combine efforts across regional interests. Something would come together eventually, but it would take some time - in WW2, it took the Western powers a year or two to learn how to work together effectively. CE has a bigger, harder job, but could probably pull a similar achievement in a similar amount of time.

Re: UN HQ Relocation?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:54 pm
by Qstor
If Geneva hasn't been occupied off the top of my head I don't think it has. I think the UN might move there.