Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Zackzenobi
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby Zackzenobi » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:54 am

Wakshani wrote:
(Remember! One of the keys in every realm is the search for allies against the High Lords. That means that winning people over is an achievable goal. Be the Flash Gordon you need to be.) :D


"Be the Flssh Gordon you need to be", Is going to win Quote of the Day for me!

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TorgHacker
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:12 am

Zackzenobi wrote:Sure I understand I was just feeling inspired watching Mission Impossible 6 last night. :D


The Mission Impossible series will certainly be a big influence. ;)
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Wakshani
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby Wakshani » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:43 am

Zackzenobi wrote:
Wakshani wrote:
(Remember! One of the keys in every realm is the search for allies against the High Lords. That means that winning people over is an achievable goal. Be the Flash Gordon you need to be.) :D


"Be the Flssh Gordon you need to be", Is going to win Quote of the Day for me!


FLash remains the iconic trio for Torg for a reason …

Flash (Dex and Strength, Cha and Spirit as backstops, Min dump)
Dale (Min and Cha, Dex and Spirit as backstops, Str dump)
Zarkov (Min and Spi, Str and Dex as backstops, Cha dump)

They go on big bold adventures, not just fighting the badguys but winning over the locals, from finding Prince Thun early (who was thisclose to active rebelling in the first place) and then once he's allied, slowly working their way through other leaders … Prince Barin, Vultan, Fria of Frigia, Desira of Tropica, the Shark Men, etc, freeing each one in turn until they cann rally everyone behind one banner and push back the evil overlord that is Ming the Merciless (who still has one of the BEST names in all of villainy).

Flash Gordon is seven kinds of awesome. :D

ZorValachan
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby ZorValachan » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:46 am

Wakshani wrote:
Zackzenobi wrote:
Wakshani wrote:
(Remember! One of the keys in every realm is the search for allies against the High Lords. That means that winning people over is an achievable goal. Be the Flash Gordon you need to be.) :D


"Be the Flssh Gordon you need to be", Is going to win Quote of the Day for me!


FLash remains the iconic trio for Torg for a reason …

Flash (Dex and Strength, Cha and Spirit as backstops, Min dump)
Dale (Min and Cha, Dex and Spirit as backstops, Str dump)
Zarkov (Min and Spi, Str and Dex as backstops, Cha dump)

They go on big bold adventures, not just fighting the badguys but winning over the locals, from finding Prince Thun early (who was thisclose to active rebelling in the first place) and then once he's allied, slowly working their way through other leaders … Prince Barin, Vultan, Fria of Frigia, Desira of Tropica, the Shark Men, etc, freeing each one in turn until they cann rally everyone behind one banner and push back the evil overlord that is Ming the Merciless (who still has one of the BEST names in all of villainy).

Flash Gordon is seven kinds of awesome. :D

Thanks.. now all day I'm going to be hearing:

"FLASH! Aa aa aaa
He saved every one of us..."
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The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
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Zackzenobi
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby Zackzenobi » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:48 am

I've always considered my Realm Runner to be my Torg version of Flash Gordon. Philosophy Grad student and extreme sports enthusiast. Starts with good stats but minimal combat skills and grows into the hero Earth needs.

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Atama
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby Atama » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:02 pm

mathey wrote:My most common issue with Shadowrun was somewhat related in that these very mercenary freelance contractors wouldn't just retire somewhere after scoring enough nuyen to quit - rather than just constantly buying guns and cyberlegs or whatever.

Back in 2nd Edition AD&D, I played a ranger who had the worst luck. (Actually it was a DM who screwed me over repeatedly, I’m not sure why.) He was repeatedly on the verge of death, was captured and tortured more than once, and at another point had all his gear (magical and non-magical) destroyed. The only good thing that happened to him was once rescuing a beautiful damsel who was daughter to a village leader, and of course the gold coins adventurers tend to accumulate. So I finally said my character quit adventuring to go marry that girl and settle down rich in that village. It seemed like the only thing to do if my character wasn’t insane.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
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TorgHacker
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:36 pm

mathey wrote:
Yeah, paranoid players and player characters are extremely hard to bring back into the usual framework of any game, Torg or no. My most common issue with Shadowrun was somewhat related in that these very mercenary freelance contractors wouldn't just retire somewhere after scoring enough nuyen to quit - rather than just constantly buying guns and cyberlegs or whatever.


To me, this is more of a problem with game systems that don't have some sort of 'motivation' aspect to characters. If you've got rich Shadowrunners still doing jobs, even if they have enough to retire, why haven't they? You can get some pretty interesting character specific adventures going on if you answer that question.

Even if it's "They killed my dog."
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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Matthew Surridge
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby Matthew Surridge » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:29 pm

This is an odd point, maybe, but I'd be interested in an 'Appendix N' equivalent for Pan-Pacifica. This might be something better handled online. But I'd really love to see a list of stuff that inspires this reality. For me one of the awesome things about Pan-Pacifica is that it's one of the few realms that (seems) largely defined by fictions native to the area (basically this one and Aysle). So I'm looking forward to a realm inspired by the Vengeance Trilogy, or films by John Woo (cf the Hard Boiled card) or Ringo Lam, or a manga like Sanctuary (which has a lot of issues, but man what a twisty plot). But I'd love to see what else is out there that shapes this realm. I actually wouldn't have thought of the Mission Impossible movies, for example, which personally interest me a lot less than the foregoing. But then that's why I'd like to see what the developers are drawing from. Does this make sense? (I suppose I'd be interested in Appendix Ns for each realm, but this one in particular.)

Anyway, that noted, I'm looking forward to seeing how the reality plays out in the different countries of the realm. Like, what does the ninja-and-samurai stuff become in Korea? What's the local equivalent of the Electric Samurai? What does the higher Social Axiom mean for pre-existing Core Earth structures, and how does it affect international co-operation or lack of same?

(This is a broader question, but: Does the Axiom play into pop culture? Is storytelling — not the Perk but the activity — a function of the Social Axiom? It "governs interactions between individuals and organizations" and "affects how quickly information may be transmitted and converted into a cooperative effort." Which sounds like storytelling. So is Kanawa intentionally or unintentionally creating an even stronger set of cultural industries?)

I also agree with the comments about wanting to see at least a bit about corporate maneuvering. I like the idea of the PCs undertaking jobs for the Rauru Block or equivalent. (I will also say that for those of us with non–Delphi Council–oriented campaigns, this is potentially a useful story hook.)

Oh, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the Priests of Palan look like this time around …
Humankind cannot bear very much reality
— T.S. Eliot, who didn't know the half of it

My Torg Eternity review, part one and part two

mathey
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby mathey » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:50 am

To me, this is more of a problem with game systems that don't have some sort of 'motivation' aspect to characters. If you've got rich Shadowrunners still doing jobs, even if they have enough to retire, why haven't they? You can get some pretty interesting character specific adventures going on if you answer that question.

Even if it's "They killed my dog."


Absolutely, and a fair point. Getting to what that motivation is at the heart of so many good stories, but having something written down or at least expressed by a player is key to character-driven action.

I also would like to put in a vote for an "Appendix N", if possible. Most of my players and I imagine most of the audience for the game have pretty limited exposure to Asian thrillers that could be real choice reference points for Pan-Pacifica. I think Train to Busan is a clear one, as are Hard Boiled and most of the '90s John Woo canon. How about Infernal Affairs or Cold War? Those seem like good examples of the twisty, turny sorts of stories that seem likely in the realm. And, as batshit as they get, the Metal Gear Solid games are more familiar.

I have a habit of bringing this up all the time - apologies - but it still bugs me that the core rulebook's frame of reference is often stuck a decade or three past - Black Rain (1989) is, like, not a great representation of either the genre or Japan. It honestly makes 1975's The Yakuza feel nuanced. I don't want to diss the authors who we can thank for bringing our precious Torg back, but there's so many better and more "authentic" examples to draw from that modern dorks will know better.

On a related note, any time I read about the Electric Samurai I cringe a little. I know, I know; its got cool gadgets and is a clear symbol of Japanese culture. I just think its corny in ways that don't quite jive with contemporary imagery or design. If it was a bit more "designed by Shirow" and less "1980's Oriental Adventures with lasers" I'd like it a lot more. I don't need it to be straight up mecha or even powered armor to sell me on it better, just, I dunno - cooler. Are there variants out there? How about Korean or Chinese twists on the design? I tend to think of that whole look as ceremonial rather than cinematic samurai, anyway - the classic master swordsman in Chanbara flicks gets around just fine for his sword-work without a lot of wicker most of the time.

I like the idea of there being some positive or at least less greed-driven examples of how the Social axiom can influence people in the setting. While qigong kinds of esoteric martial arts powers are often viewed as Magic or Spiritual things in roleplaying games, their rooting in self-improvement and Asian medicinal tradition really DOES feel like a Social thing. And, yes, I did complain about the samurai armor being corny, but this opens up the doorway to the wonderful colorful world of Shaw Brothers and wuxia kung fu powers - albeit in a contemporary setting full of spies and mercenaries (I have such nostalgia for Ninjas, Spies and Superspies, despite my many issues with Palladium).

If the Priests of Palan make a return (or there's a new equivalent) perhaps their philosophy of self-denial and public good can be a nice counter to the crass commercialism and avarice of Kanawa. Its a classic contrast and one that is a common theme in endless examples of martial arts and crime stories that come out of Asia.

vaminion
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Re: Things you'd like to know about Pan-Pacifica

Postby vaminion » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:48 am

mathey wrote:I also would like to put in a vote for an "Appendix N", if possible. Most of my players and I imagine most of the audience for the game have pretty limited exposure to Asian thrillers that could be real choice reference points for Pan-Pacifica.


I agree. When TE originally came out it was pitched to me as the cyberpunk/intriguey reality. I know it isn't that now, but I have an extremely hard time summarizing what flavor PP should have.


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