Reliquaries

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Yoric
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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:18 pm

TorgHacker wrote:It's all Ebenuscrux giving 'revelations' to Malraux.


So, let me try and draw the thread:

  • Malraux is now the sole inventor-by-revelation in the entire Realm...
  • ...and he thinks that this comes from God
  • ...except in Magna Verita/Cyberpapacy/GodNet, God is broken and it's in fact Ebenescrux doing the revelations
  • ...except it's in fact the Techquisition stealing inventions from invaded and/or infiltrated Cosms
  • ...except for AIs that can just be prayed into existence, at least from existing templates
  • ...I wonder if revelations work better in the Living Land and its higher Spiritual Axiom. At a guess, they very well might.
  • Since Ebenescrux enjoys inventing (is addicted to inventing?), this probably means that a primary criterium for picking Crusades is the technology of the place
  • ...which keeps the Techquisition quite busy looking for technology and bringing it back to Ebenescrux
  • ...which also keeps Ebenescrux quite busy digesting and regurgitating said technologies into something usable within the Cyberpapacy, partially explaining why it doesn't have full/permanent control on the GodNet
  • ...which also keeps Malraux quite busy having revelations and dispatching them to the various Societies of the Church
  • ...which also might help explain why Ebenescrux + Malraux haven't been as fine politicians during the Invasion as they had been when taking over the Church.
  • This also means that Malraux has dispatched thousands of Techquisition spies all around Core Earth, Tharkold, Pan-Pacifica, possibly even Nile Empire (which actually understands science better than the Cyberpapacy) and Living Land (to dismantle and bring back Lost Wonders)
  • ...except of course Malraux doesn't fully understand the purpose of the Techquisition and the fact that God is broken
  • ...so Ebenescrux certainly has plans to keep Malraux focused on something else and an alternative explanation on what the Techquisition is for
  • ...so while Pan-Pacifica, Tharkold and Core Earth are probably busy spying on the Cyberpapacy and trying to reverse-engineer inventions, the Techquisition is busy spying on them
  • ...and quite possibly busy spying upon whatever the reverse-engineers come up with
  • ...if Ebenescrux is not itself sponsoring the reverse-engineering because it needs people who actually understand the technology before it can process and invent it
  • ...but without the Techquisition (or worse, the Inquisition) knowing that said researchers/technologists actually work for Ebenescrux because if the news reached the Council of the Way, either the Council, Ebenescrux or Malraux would not survive the confrontation

Do I get it right so far? Or can Ebenescrux actually invent things itself?

If I'm right (or mostly right) so far, the Cyberpapacy is even more self-destructive than I thought. Probably much more so than any of the Cosms described so far (although I would guess that Tharkold, Pan-Pacifica and Orrorsh are pretty self-destructive themselves). That works very well with the totalitarian regime but... oh gosh. This Cyberpapacy is a worse place to live than cyberpunk in pretty much every single way :)

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:04 pm

The Cardinals are the ones who directly or control the Reliquaries. I'm pretty sure that's covered somewhere?
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Yoric
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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:24 pm

TorgHacker wrote:The Cardinals are the ones who directly or control the Reliquaries. I'm pretty sure that's covered somewhere?


Couldn't find it.

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:43 pm

Yoric wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:It's all Ebenuscrux giving 'revelations' to Malraux.


So, let me try and draw the thread:

[list]

[*] ...I wonder if revelations work better in the Living Land and its higher Spiritual Axiom. At a guess, they very well might.


I wonder if this means a Cyberpapacy native in a foreign cosm (with a relative Spirit Axiom) would have a closer connection to their God... and get revelations direct from their God as they aren't going via a Cosm controlled by Ebenuscrux?
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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Savioronedge » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:31 am

Yoric wrote:If I'm right (or mostly right) so far, the Cyberpapacy is even more self-destructive than I thought.


I refer you to Old TORG's adventure: War's End and one of my favorite bits of writing in the entirety of TORG. In the chapter on what happens in the Cyberpapacy when
► Show Spoiler


This wasn't what first makes me love the Cyberpapacy, but it did cement that love forever.

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:20 am

Savioronedge wrote:This wasn't what first makes me love the Cyberpapacy, but it did cement that love forever.


I assume you're talking of Deliver us from Evil?

► Show Spoiler


YMMV :)

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:16 am

Ok, so right now, I have a problem.

I don't enjoy GM-ing worlds/enemies that have been designed only to be cleansed by fire. For the moment, I don't find any redeeming quality to the Cyberpapacy, which makes my job a little bit complicated :)

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Kuildeous » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:55 am

Yoric wrote:I don't enjoy GM-ing worlds/enemies that have been designed only to be cleansed by fire. For the moment, I don't find any redeeming quality to the Cyberpapacy, which makes my job a little bit complicated :)


I’m not sure what this means. It’s a villain, like the other realms, and serves to be opposed by the protagonists. Possibly with an end goal in sight where the villains are all defeated.

And they don’t necessarily have to be cleansed by fire. You could pull the redemption trope (e.g., Darth Vader) with Malreaux. He’s the most likely one to fall into that trope (Baruk Kaah possibly). There could be other methods, such as appealing to the literal God of the realm to fight back. Or introduce a new technology that allows people to survive losing their cyberware. Or any number of possibilities.

What sort of redeeming qualities are you seeking from the Cyberpapacy? It is a villain, though its methods are on the insidious side.
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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:05 am

Frankly, I don't know what I want. I just have the feeling that, at least for me, the Cyberpapacy is growing into a depressing villain rather than one I want to GM :)

That is, the Living Land, the Nile Empire and Aysle all have a sense of wonder built into the setting: the Living Land has the Wonders and friendly people, the Nile Empire has Weird Science, the Egypt that Never Was and pulp heroes/villains, and Aysle has the land itself + everything-is-magic – in each case, something that makes me want to visit the place. The Cyberpapacy goes pretty far into making sure that nothing is good: it has concentration camps, its borders are closed, religion is corrupted, education is corrupted, science doesn't exist, progress is a con job, people fear each other, nobody actually creates anything, cities are all pretty much identical, individual villains are nameless and interexchangeable, the GodNet seems pretty uniform, the Delphi Council doesn't seem to have a plan, even the High Lord is described as an idiot and the only reason why not everything is smothered out yet is that the Bureaucracy is ridiculously inefficient.

So, fair enough, that's pretty much by definition a totalitarian regime :)

However, right now, despite the many, many good ideas that went into writing the sourcebook, it doesn't feel like a place I want to visit. Hopefully, this will change once I've read a few scenarios that take place in the Cyberpapacy and/or the Secrets of ...! I hope that they land soon :)

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Re: Reliquaries

Postby Yoric » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:06 am

Note My real problem may simply be that I had envisioned the Cyberpapacy very differently. I'll come to terms with this Cyberpapacy, eventually :)


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