Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:07 pm

Kuildeous wrote:
ryric wrote:I admit I'm having some trouble reconciling in my imagination, "post nuclear wasteland" with "generally chilly eastern Russia." I blame post-apocalyptic fiction for almost always going with a hot desert setting. It's certainly not a bad combination to have a wintry fallout zone, just unusual.


I personally would not rule out the desert setting. Who knows what weird meteorological phenomenon is happening in an irradiated mixed zone? It may have its own ecosystem. Hell, super plants could possibly be grown like how they were in the Wasteland game.

I'd have to think that the radiation levels got lowered somehow. Sending Storm Knights in radiation suits into a realm where a single successful combat hit basically dooms him to a slow, terrible death doesn't sound very fun.

And yeah, nothing to say that Mad Max can't take place in a frozen desert. Food is probably still hard to grow there.


TBH this is a level of detail we haven't really gotten into yet, except it's not a 'hot' radioactive wasteland. It's enough that you'll get mutants, but not so much that you just die of radiation poisoning (unless you're near something special).

So, basically think Fallout.
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:13 pm

ZeDiac wrote:I really like your frequency of announcements... it is nice to get regular infos about the work in progress :)


Weekly until the Kickstarter launches. :-)

So Nile Empire and Tharkold ? Let's see...

Kuildeous wrote:Tharkold is really exciting. I love the fact that technodemons are rare.

I also like that idea ! I never really liked Tharkold especially because of the Technodemons that always looked too "powerful" for me : cybertech, magic and psionic... that makes people from this cosm potentially very dangerous and powerful which always bothered me. Fortunately they are "lazy" :roll:



Generally speaking, the Race uses psionics, the technodemons use magic. It's not that either can't do the other, but that's what they're used to.

Well, that and a Tharkold spellcaster getting a Mishap while casting basically says to all the technodemons in range "HERE I AM!!!!!!!"

That tends to have an evolutionary pressure on Tharkold human spellcasters. :-)


TorgHacker wrote:It's very 'street level', so more like the Netflix Marvel shows.

This is something some of my former players will enjoy and I am alos OK with that : more like "original pulp" than "super heros" !


I'll be honest and say that I expected a bit more pushback on this, but the response has largely been favorable. :-)


Gargoyle wrote:One of the things I love about this game is how it encourages me to learn more about the real world around me.

I feel exactly the same ;)




Oh gosh, yes.

I mean, when I was doing research to choose hard points for Orrorsh I came across one that was included that I actually showed to my wife and said, "Check this out!"

I can't believe that practically no westerners know about this structure. I'm pretty knowledgeable about the world and I didn't even know about it.
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:14 pm

ryric wrote:I figure the radiation in the fallout zone will be a "movie" style threat, where you want to check found food and water and stay away from "bad" areas, but not omnipresent cancer-causing suckiness.



Exactly.

I already have an idea for having a snowstorm where instead of a tiny mote of dust in each snowflake it's a nanite. Get caught out in the storm and it starts doing...things to you.


<takes notes>
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:19 pm

johntfs wrote:Maybe I'll be convinced later, but right now I really don't see Tharkold having a Social axiom of 25. The picture I have in my head from the update is Mad Max/Terminator meets Hellraiser. None of those settings feature organized nation-states, much less multinational non-state actors like the Red Cross, Doctors without Borders or Exxon-Mobile, which are the hallmarks of Social 25. Tharkold's main government seems to be a loose fuedal hierarchy based on personal dominance. If Kranod wants low-ranking lord Canod to do something, he orders Thranod to order Zanod to order Danod to order Canod to do that something. Terminator:Salvation gave us the clearest picture of life after Judgement Day. While the human resistance was somewhat organized, it seemed to be a collection of cells living hand-to-mouth coordinated through a mobile command structure (until Skynet blew up the sub, anyway). That's pretty much what I would expect from the free humans of Tharkold, but that's nowhere near Social 25.

If the only reason for Social 25 is to allow for psionics, just drop the psionics. Instead, I would go with the idea of mutant or occultech powers. Maybe raise Magic to 15 and Tech to 27 while lowering Social to 19. Instead of psionics offer powers similar to pulp powers in the Nile, but with the twist that the powers tend to twist the user. Like, you have Super-Attribute (Mind) because you grew a second head. Or if you want something like psionics get it through occultech. Sure, your character has something like Telekinesis, but only because she's got a crown of weird runed black metal spikes that have been driven through her skull into her living brain and spark when she uses that power and ohgod, it hurts ithurtsithurtsithurts!


You probably missed the part in the Reality preview where we specified that the Axiom level is only about what is permitted in a cosm, not necessarily what is actually found there. This is so we don't have 'split' Axiom levels like before.

Examples include Tharkold, but also the Cyberpapacy and it's Social axiom being high enough to allow significant national organization (including large corporations), but otherwise it's basically medieval.

The Living Land's tech technically allows copper smelting, but that hasn't happened in the Living Land yet.

So, Tharkold has a high Social Axiom, but the practicalities on the ground as well as the World Laws have conspired to make those sort of organizations non-existent. In other words, the people of the Race can _conceive_ of an advanced society...but they can't actually attain it.

Which is almost worse.
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby johntfs » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:02 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
So, Tharkold has a high Social Axiom, but the practicalities on the ground as well as the World Laws have conspired to make those sort of organizations non-existent. In other words, the people of the Race can _conceive_ of an advanced society...but they can't actually attain it.

Which is almost worse.


My thing is that in order to qualify for an Axiom you should really need to do more than "conceive" of something. Otherwise Core Earth should have Axioms of 29 across the board because we have conceived of some really out there stuff.

It occurs to me that perhaps the humans have a worldwide organization of psionic martial artists who wield some version of plasma-based melee weapons. You know, Jedi (you can't call them that, of course, when it comes to raining down legal horror, the Gaunt Man has nothing on the Mouse King). Now, they'd be violent, scary, don't-look-at-me-funny-or-I'll-cut-off-something-that-you-will-miss "Jedi" but that would meet my idea of something actualized at Social 25.

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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby Rabbitball » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:50 pm

I think we should wait until we see the cosm before deciding how accurate the Axioms are.
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby Dan Davenport » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:11 pm

TorgHacker wrote:TBH this is a level of detail we haven't really gotten into yet, except it's not a 'hot' radioactive wasteland. It's enough that you'll get mutants, but not so much that you just die of radiation poisoning (unless you're near something special).

So, basically think Fallout.


Ooo! Can you tell us more about the mutants??

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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby Dan Davenport » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:17 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Generally speaking, the Race uses psionics, the technodemons use magic. It's not that either can't do the other, but that's what they're used to.


This would make sense if the technodemons came from a reality with a lower Social axiom. Although... if the technodemons invaded the reality of the Race, wouldn't the technodemons' axioms have overwritten the Race's axioms?

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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:30 am

Dan Davenport wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:TBH this is a level of detail we haven't really gotten into yet, except it's not a 'hot' radioactive wasteland. It's enough that you'll get mutants, but not so much that you just die of radiation poisoning (unless you're near something special).

So, basically think Fallout.


Ooo! Can you tell us more about the mutants??


Not a lot is detailed. We have a creature or two in that section but that's about it. Really something that will be dealt with in the cosm book.
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Re: Preview #7 - The Nile Empire and Tharkold

Postby TorgHacker » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:32 am

johntfs wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
So, Tharkold has a high Social Axiom, but the practicalities on the ground as well as the World Laws have conspired to make those sort of organizations non-existent. In other words, the people of the Race can _conceive_ of an advanced society...but they can't actually attain it.

Which is almost worse.


My thing is that in order to qualify for an Axiom you should really need to do more than "conceive" of something. Otherwise Core Earth should have Axioms of 29 across the board because we have conceived of some really out there stuff.



Right, and they could. But the conditions that they live under, plus the effect of the Law of Domination and the Law of Ferocity means that they can't attain it.

It would be like...if you were stranded in a deserted island and you were an engineer. You'd know how to construct a ship. But there's no metal anywhere on the island, so you can't. It's not that the Tech Axiom is too low, it's that your resources aren't good enough.
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