Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

ZorValachan
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Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:01 pm

I'm looking for feedback.

New Perk idea for a specific "new" realm.
If a certain Perk based on a philosophy of helping every member of a group equally is taken at character creation (it gives a few choices for spending a Possibility), Along with this perk, the player may choose to get another perk for free at character creation (so starts with 3 "free" perks) in exchange for a disadvantage. (they can also just get the aforementioned perk and not get a free perk/disadvantage)

Like Goldilocks, I'm trying to figure out if the disadvantage is too good, too bad, or just right for this.
So basically is this disadvantage worth a "free perk"?

1) The character cannot trade out his own Supporter Cards (he can trade to receive them), Must place Supporter Cards into his Pool first, and Must use Supporter cards whenever any ally fails an action that the Supporter card would make Succeed.
or
2) The player starts with a base of 2 Possibilities per act.
or
3) Both are needed to make this worth a free perk.

Thanks
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

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Gargoyle
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:47 pm

ZorValachan wrote:I'm looking for feedback.

New Perk idea for a specific "new" realm.
If a certain Perk based on a philosophy of helping every member of a group equally is taken at character creation (it gives a few choices for spending a Possibility), Along with this perk, the player may choose to get another perk for free at character creation (so starts with 3 "free" perks) in exchange for a disadvantage. (they can also just get the aforementioned perk and not get a free perk/disadvantage)

I'm not sure I understand the boldfaced part.

Like Goldilocks, I'm trying to figure out if the disadvantage is too good, too bad, or just right for this.
So basically is this disadvantage worth a "free perk"?

1) The character cannot trade out his own Supporter Cards (he can trade to receive them), Must place Supporter Cards into his Pool first, and Must use Supporter cards whenever any ally fails an action that the Supporter card would make Succeed.
or
2) The player starts with a base of 2 Possibilities per act.
or
3) Both are needed to make this worth a free perk.

Thanks


Not sure, but since every subsequent perk you buy is more expensive than the last, I think for long term characters this is going to be a must have regardless of the penalty, and for shorter term campaigns not worth it at all, with a sweet spot at some clearance level. I think it will be difficult to balance so that it isn't a must have but still feels like something fun. But I'm not a big fan of disadvantages as balances to perks, so I may be biased against it too.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

ZorValachan
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:08 am

I'm creating an Infiniverse Exchange product. Some converting of OT rules to TE as well as my Campaign cosmverse from OT to TE.
For the Space Gods section, I converted OT rules into an Aka, Zinatt, and Coar perk (1 for each). In the OT book, Aka and Coar had interesting rules that gave each type an advantage and a disadvantage (such as bonuses to certain skills, but you can't use or accept supporter cards and can't allow them to be used on you- Aka). I converted the advantage to a perk to keep some Space God flavor for those characters. But the disadvantages were cool flavors and I thought for Space God characters to allow choosing a disadvantage to get a free perk. I feel the Coar and Aka converted nicely, but the Zinatt disadvantage fell flat. I started thinking about Zinatt and one of their core philosophies is "helping everyone in the group".

It is a Space God only choice, so only a small tiny fraction of people might even use it for their character, so it's not like every character is going to have it.

And normally I agree completely, I hate the "want an advantage, then take a disadvantage" thing normally. But it is hard to give a disadvantage to a starting character with nothing to compensate for it.

FYI in this cosmverse the Akashans weren't taken out by the Gaunt Man pre-invasion, but they were shot down when entering orbit. There's only about 3 dozen survivors left. Their Biotech is slowly going to die/get used up, so throwing another bad thing on them is just cruel.

As a bonus an Otherverse Darooni Wasp Rider from the Lost Land:
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- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

Plastic-Man
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby Plastic-Man » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:43 am

I don't think it's a good idea in general.

With the Nile perks they have add-on's within the perk itself, an extra perk is a bit open ended and doesn't reason doesn't fit any theme. Things like that normally become something you always take or never take. Whatever perk idea you have just let it stand on it's own as an option players may or may not want to take.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby Gargoyle » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:33 am

Instead of tying it to a perk and creating a disadvantage to balance, why not treat Coar, Zinatt, and Aka as races? I would think every Space Gods character would be selecting a philosophy as part of fitting into their society anyway. Races have both advantages and disadvantages tied to them. Sure it's not really a race, and you could still have a species race for Star Sphere characters but treating it as such takes it out of the perk system and treat it how it really is I think. The advantage is that you don't get questions about XP costs for perks or have to try balancing it against other perks, just balance it against each other philosophy and call it a day. So they'd have a race, a philosophy (treated mechanically like a second race), and then perks as normal.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

ZorValachan
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:20 pm

Gargoyle wrote:Instead of tying it to a perk and creating a disadvantage to balance, why not treat Coar, Zinatt, and Aka as races? I would think every Space Gods character would be selecting a philosophy as part of fitting into their society anyway. Races have both advantages and disadvantages tied to them. Sure it's not really a race, and you could still have a species race for Star Sphere characters but treating it as such takes it out of the perk system and treat it how it really is I think. The advantage is that you don't get questions about XP costs for perks or have to try balancing it against other perks, just balance it against each other philosophy and call it a day. So they'd have a race, a philosophy (treated mechanically like a second race), and then perks as normal.


Races in TORG are usually a different Limit Max for attributes, a perk-like advantage (darkvision, claws, Favored tests) and a very minor disadvantage (clothes/armor don't fit, -4 to persuasion, 1 extra Shock on fatigue results in low magic).
The philosophy disadvantages are a little more complicated/detrimental IMO.

Maybe make the philosophies a prereq for the Perk group? So having the philosophical disadvantage allows access to the Perks of the chosen philosophy.

As for the Nile comparison, I'm trying to stay away from just regurgitating another realms' perk style. It's interesting to say the least in creating new perks that haven't been done before, don't make another perk obsolete, and don't introduce power creep.

I'll need to wait until LL comes out to see how to handle how Beta (and Gamma+?) Perks are handled. Will probably do a Vol 2 for higher power things if this project does good enough.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

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TorgHacker
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:38 pm

No Gamma, just Beta.
Deanna Gilbert
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Kamelion
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Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby Kamelion » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:45 pm

If you're looking for a way to represent Coar, Aka, and Zinatt, you could come up with Cosm Cards for them. That's what I did for my oTorg game (which uses Cosm Cards and a few other elements from Eternity) when I was fleshing out the Akashans, Tz'Ravok, and Land Below. I have an Aka card, for example, that gives you Possibilities if you find ways to avoid doing damage in combat, and a Coar card that allows you to trade cards unevenly with other PCs (you don't have to receive the same amount as you give) - that kind thing.
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ZorValachan
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Too Good, Too Bad, or Just Right?

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:55 pm

Kamelion wrote:If you're looking for a way to represent Coar, Aka, and Zinatt, you could come up with Cosm Cards for them. That's what I did for my oTorg game (which uses Cosm Cards and a few other elements from Eternity) when I was fleshing out the Akashans, Tz'Ravok, and Land Below. I have an Aka card, for example, that gives you Possibilities if you find ways to avoid doing damage in combat, and a Coar card that allows you to trade cards unevenly with other PCs (you don't have to receive the same amount as you give) - that kind thing.


That would be the way I would have originally handled it, but it works only if there is a Space God realm. In the Otherverse there are only a handful of survivors and they do not have access to reality trees. A "theme" of Space God characters is that they are refugees without a home. They have awesome Biotech to start, but it is limited and as they use it they do not regain it and it causes contradiction everywhere.

Truthfully, my original plan was to do as you did, insert cosm cards, perks, and other things I liked from TE into OT (I had already separated XP from Possibilities) But the Infiniverse Exchange only allows OT->TE, not TE->OT. I already converted my game from OT to TE and people didn't seem as enthused as I did to convert them back, so I've warmed to the idea of converting my entire campaign world to TE, instead of piecemeal as people make those types of characters.

I am coming up with Cosm cards for Azteca, but was unsure on my Lost Land. I was thinking about mixing Nile and LL cards (5 from each) for that aspect.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/


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