Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

RamblingScribe
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby RamblingScribe » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:41 am

I think that if the axiom does shift, I will use the change as the launch pad for an adventure. I'm not sure how exactly, but something like a tribe of transformed humans asks for help protecting their new settlement from another tribe who are demanding taxes in the form of sacrifices for Rec Stalek, and offering to share a portion of the food the hunt and gather to survivors in CE hard point in return.

Try and showcase that the tribes are behaving differently, and then if the players themselves don't get the significance, their Delphi council contact during debriefing can point it out to them

sandchigger
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby sandchigger » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:58 pm

RamblingScribe wrote:I think that if the axiom does shift, I will use the change as the launch pad for an adventure. I'm not sure how exactly, but something like a tribe of transformed humans asks for help protecting their new settlement from another tribe who are demanding taxes in the form of sacrifices for Rec Stalek, and offering to share a portion of the food the hunt and gather to survivors in CE hard point in return.

Try and showcase that the tribes are behaving differently, and then if the players themselves don't get the significance, their Delphi council contact during debriefing can point it out to them


I like this idea, especially as it highlights human survivors in the Living Lands. Maybe Edeinos just don't have some communal spark in their makeup. It would be very much in keeping with oTorg if Baruk Kaah's plan to make things easier on himself wound up making things easier on those resisting him instead.

Rocketeer
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby Rocketeer » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:50 pm

RamblingScribe wrote:In the chat they said that the axiom increase, if it happens, will go into the LL book and on the GM screen.

Did anyone happen to mention if the Axioms on the Archetypes would be changed as well?

RamblingScribe
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby RamblingScribe » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:04 pm

Rocketeer wrote:
RamblingScribe wrote:In the chat they said that the axiom increase, if it happens, will go into the LL book and on the GM screen.

Did anyone happen to mention if the Axioms on the Archetypes would be changed as well?

I don't think that they specified, but that's a good thing for them to at least be thinking about.

utsukushi
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby utsukushi » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:45 am

Huh. I'm probably all alone in this, but... I don't like that. If it's going to be different in the book and screens... blah. No. Changing something right out of the gate isn't "changing" anything, it's just different already.

I'm with Gargoyle on this, I'm afraid. It might be cool to see the Living Land pushed up to an 8 Social later, but not now. There has to be contrast or there's no point. If it's already like that, then people get to the Living Land and it's just, "Oh, look, an Edeinos Tax Collector." You want the players to have that feeling of, "Wait, what? A walled village? A proclamation from the mayor posted on the gate? Edeinos don't do that!" And that needs time to establish that the Edeinos don't do that.

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Kuildeous
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby Kuildeous » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:08 pm

Rocketeer wrote:
RamblingScribe wrote:In the chat they said that the axiom increase, if it happens, will go into the LL book and on the GM screen.

Did anyone happen to mention if the Axioms on the Archetypes would be changed as well?


It wouldn't take much for them to update the two characters it affects. A bit of a shame for me because I have my archetypes laminated for the demos I run. But then, the demo can afford to have a wrong axiom for the Living Land characters. The players are usually all newbies anyway. They won't notice a thing.
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TorgHacker
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:27 pm

If an Axiom does get voted to change, it'll happen at the end of Year One and be one of the big meta stories in Year Two.

If it changes, we'll edit the book to mention it (but obviously it won't be in the version that comes out at the end of the KS because we haven't had the vote yet).

As to what other forms, note that the GM screen axioms are written as PostIt notes. :-) We do have some ideas on how to handle a post-change thing...maybe stickers to add to the Table Tents (for any cosm...not just the Living Land) if things change, and maybe a blank tent so you can set up your own completely.

No promises but that's the sort of thing we're throwing around for ideas. That's the great thing about Kickstarters, we can do wacky things that wouldn't really be possible otherwise.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby Gargoyle » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:59 pm

TorgHacker wrote:If an Axiom does get voted to change, it'll happen at the end of Year One and be one of the big meta stories in Year Two.



Works for me. Going to vote Social then. Until then I can play up how the only reason the edeinos are not rolling over everyone is that they are disorganized and there is so much infighting; they only win when BK is leading them from the front. And then, after that event...they see a change...if it happens of course. I'll probably stick with the canon because I'm a little lazy.
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Jim
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby Jim » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:06 pm

utsukushi wrote:Huh. I'm probably all alone in this, but... I don't like that. If it's going to be different in the book and screens... blah. No. Changing something right out of the gate isn't "changing" anything, it's just different already.

I'm with Gargoyle on this, I'm afraid. It might be cool to see the Living Land pushed up to an 8 Social later, but not now. There has to be contrast or there's no point. If it's already like that, then people get to the Living Land and it's just, "Oh, look, an Edeinos Tax Collector." You want the players to have that feeling of, "Wait, what? A walled village? A proclamation from the mayor posted on the gate? Edeinos don't do that!" And that needs time to establish that the Edeinos don't do that.


Heh, I was going to reply but then Deanna posted. I'm still going to reply, but it's changed a little.

I'm kinda chuckling because you seemed for it on the first page of the thread, but now you don't like it. :D

It's a solid point and I don't have a counter-argument for it. You do want the players to have a solid impression of the edeinos before you change them, so that the change is really observable, instead of being an abstract detail in the player's (and not the PC's) minds. Thus, you want them to experience the Living Land before you change it, so they can clearly appreciate the before and the after. Makes perfect sense. I'm not even gonna debate it.

And hopefully this issue can be mitigated by putting it at the end of the Year One, if there are enough votes. (Though I stick out my tongue at USNA because I suggested it could be at the end of the year before they made their declaration)

I gripe about the stretch goal in general. Skip if you're not interested:
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Gargoyle
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Re: Living Land Axiom Stretch Goal Discussion

Postby Gargoyle » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:12 pm

utsukushi wrote:Huh. I'm probably all alone in this, but... I don't like that. If it's going to be different in the book and screens... blah. No. Changing something right out of the gate isn't "changing" anything, it's just different already.

I'm with Gargoyle on this, I'm afraid. It might be cool to see the Living Land pushed up to an 8 Social later, but not now. There has to be contrast or there's no point. If it's already like that, then people get to the Living Land and it's just, "Oh, look, an Edeinos Tax Collector." You want the players to have that feeling of, "Wait, what? A walled village? A proclamation from the mayor posted on the gate? Edeinos don't do that!" And that needs time to establish that the Edeinos don't do that.


You've hit on my concern exactly, I had convinced myself that it was going to happen sometime during year one, which causes the issue you're talking about. Game time can go quickly, and it may not have been enough time to make the contrast. I realized my assumption was just that and that's why I asked about it.

And since they're doing it at the end of Year one and following it up with content going into why it happened in a future product, I'm on board with it now. I was kind of concerned that there was going to be an event during year one, arbitrarily explained in the cosm book in a small blurb (all they would have had time for), maybe even as the end of the God Box which felt too early, but since they go into it in Year two in some way, even if it's not an adventure, I'm ok with that.

I think the only real flaws with the stretch goal were the high level of it, and the lack of detail in the description, it seemed like an abrupt change but it's really not. But it does allow backers to steer part of the direction for the next LL book (or maybe an Infiniverse volume, maybe an adventure, maybe something else) which is pretty cool, and I applaud the attempt to give some control of the metaplot to backers, maybe just not the exact method.
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