magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

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Spatula
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Spatula » Tue May 21, 2019 2:13 am

Post-apocalyptic worlds (and the Cyberpapacy) aside, it does seem like a proper “random world axiom generator” should more often than not produce worlds where Social equals Tech, or is very close to it. Out of a smallish sample, just about every world fits that pattern.

Hmm, now I’m thinking of what would make a really good axiom generator using statistical methods.

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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Tue May 21, 2019 4:12 am

Spatula wrote:Post-apocalyptic worlds (and the Cyberpapacy) aside, it does seem like a proper “random world axiom generator” should more often than not produce worlds where Social equals Tech, or is very close to it. Out of a smallish sample, just about every world fits that pattern.

Hmm, now I’m thinking of what would make a really good axiom generator using statistical methods.


You could do that, but then you would end up with very same-o same-o worlds. I do agree that I'll change the generator next time though to give a minimum social level.

With having such a low social and high magic/tech you almost have to have a post apocalyptic world.
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Atama » Tue May 21, 2019 1:28 pm

I don’t think low Social = post-apocalyptic. Look at Tharkold, which is the post-apocalyptic setting in the real game, and also the setting with the highest Social axiom.
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Spatula
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Spatula » Tue May 21, 2019 2:30 pm

Atama wrote:I don’t think low Social = post-apocalyptic.

Low social + high tech, not just low social.

Atama wrote:Look at Tharkold, which is the post-apocalyptic setting in the real game, and also the setting with the highest Social axiom.

But there's also been quite a bit of discussion about how Tharkold's social is too high or it's only that high because psionics or how in practice it's lower because of the world laws.

agarrett
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby agarrett » Tue May 21, 2019 2:41 pm

Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:I don’t think low Social = post-apocalyptic.

Low social + high tech, not just low social.


But neither of the two proposals up so far is actually post-apocalyptic. TechsArcana is an anti-utopia, in which high-tech has led to extreme lethargy, while my Ancient Aliens is a John Carter of Mars riff (or He-Man, which I really wasn't thinking of at the time - I swear.) Yes, the high-tech, high-magic, low-social dominates any design you come up with, but I'm really interested to see what other people do with it. I suspect there are other, non-post-apocalypse ideas still lurking out there.

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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Tue May 21, 2019 3:06 pm

agarrett wrote:
Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:I don’t think low Social = post-apocalyptic.

Low social + high tech, not just low social.


But neither of the two proposals up so far is actually post-apocalyptic. TechsArcana is an anti-utopia, in which high-tech has led to extreme lethargy, while my Ancient Aliens is a John Carter of Mars riff (or He-Man, which I really wasn't thinking of at the time - I swear.) Yes, the high-tech, high-magic, low-social dominates any design you come up with, but I'm really interested to see what other people do with it. I suspect there are other, non-post-apocalypse ideas still lurking out there.


OK, maybe not post apocalyptic, but definitely dystopian.
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby dwrose » Tue May 21, 2019 3:23 pm

My first post, I was a fan of oTorg and have been following but keeping silent on the rules, but after spending too much time obsessing on cosm axioms this was too good to resist, and so ...

Cosm: Realm of the Robomancers
Tech: 27 Magic: 25 Spirit: 9 Social: 5

With a higher tech axiom that Magna Veritas, a higher magic axiom than Aysle, a lower social axiom than Takta Ker and a spiritual axiom just a bit higher than Pan Pacifica, this is an unusual cosm indeed. As both magic and technology are so abundant and so powerful, most denizens do not distinguish between the two.

There are a select few beings, the robomancers, who use their deep knowledge and skill of both to shape matter and energy in order to fulfill their own selfish interests. They tend to inhabit and seldom depart their domains which they have claimed by right of possession. Most, if indeed not all, of these are created beings, each in their own unique forms, and their domains are as unique as themselves. Within each domain are many beings, each one created by and serving their purpose for the robomancer who created them.

Seldom do robomancers interact, though upon occasion there will be conflict which will typically escalate to terrible warfare and destruction. The result is usually the loser fleeing much weakened and reduced in power or else being utterly destroyed.

Outside of the domains are wild, rough places, sparsely inhabited by individuals and small bands of beings: flesh and blood, mechanical, artificial or some combination of all three who have no domain, though they may have memories of coming from the domain that has since ceased to exist. Packs of wolfdroids, cybernetic arachnids, and beasts that look part squid part serpent roam these wild areas. There are no humans native to this cosm, though there are the cyborg-elves, who hunt and scavenge the wild lands in small extended family groups. Many of these beings have magical powers, but such powers are much more limited in scope, perhaps even being innate or unconscious in their use.

World Laws

Law of Autonomy: Any machine or living being has the potential to become a fully autonomous and independent sentient being.

Law of Consanguinity: Items or beings that are created by or belong to another being will be known by, drawn to and controlled by that being. Even imitation allows the potential for external control.

Law of No Empathy: All beings will work to their own selfish ends. Cooperation and supporting actions suffer a -2 on top of existing penalties. Alliances are temporary at best and will fall apart with time and distance.

Cosm Cards

Like a rat in a cage: You find your party in a room, wilderness or arena covered by an unbreakable wall or force field. There is an adversary for each member of the party. Once one party is defeated, you are all transported back. Gain one possibility after this occurs.

I have an errand: One of the robomancers gives the party a small artefact and instructs them to deliver it to a rival. The robomancer will ensure that the party is, ahem, properly motivated to carry out the task. Gain one possibility once the artefact has been delivered or disposed of.

Strange landscape: Your surroundings suddenly change to an extreme but survivable environment. Gravity may cease, you could be within a metal forest or walking in a desert of nanobots. Gain one possibility.

Everyone is an island: The party becomes separated and must individually overcome an obstacle to rejoin the group. Each member who succeeds gains one possibility.

Thrown together: You encounter a tribe of cyborg-elves, droid wolves, clones or other creatures with whom you must cooperate with to overcome some common obstacle. If the obstacle is overcome, everyone gains one possibility, if the outcome is mutually beneficial, everyone gains two possibilities.

Raising Consciousness: Some piece of equipment or animal companion becomes sentient and self-aware. Gain one possibility.

What have I found: The party finds an artefact of high technology and high magic. A player may not use the item until they succeed in either a science or divination roll against a difficulty of 14. May be discarded for one possibility.

How the fly feels: The party has attracted the irritation of a robomancer who seeks to displace, destroy or dispose of the party as conveniently as possible. Gain one possibility.

The enemy of my enemy: When played another party or being equal in strength to your current adversaries comes along and attacks your adversaries. May be discarded for one possibility.

Wild Power: For the remainder of the scene, all magical spells successfully cast increase their level of success: a standard success becomes good, a good success becomes outstanding. Everyone gains one possibility once the effect ends.



Why go here?

Pick up cool stuff: Especially if you are adaptable and don’t mind carrying around artefacts that exceed both technological and magical axioms of any other location.

Beat the heat: This is a very good place to escape from pursuit as no one will know or care about you or your problems.

Adventure Ideas

A techno-demon seeks to become the cosm’s newest robomancer. Can the hero’s prevent this?

The party gets “captured” by a robomancer who puts them in the equivalent of a giant glass jar for further study, then forgets about them for a while. How to get out? What to do then?

Strange beings that appear to be made out of bricks appear to be building what looks like a gigantic castle outside of town. What is their purpose?

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Atama
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Atama » Tue May 21, 2019 3:45 pm

Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:I don’t think low Social = post-apocalyptic.

Low social + high tech, not just low social.

A high Tech axiom doesn’t necessarily fit with a post-apocalyptic setting either. A common trope of that genre involves people repurposing old broken technology in low tech ways. An old pipe with a circular saw blade put on it becomes a pole arm. Mad Max stuff. Tharkold is high tech as an exception because of what the techno-demons have. It’s not a typical post-apocalyptic setting. Most that I’m familiar with involve low tech survival amidst the wreckage of non-functioning high tech stuff.

Spatula wrote:
Atama wrote:Look at Tharkold, which is the post-apocalyptic setting in the real game, and also the setting with the highest Social axiom.

But there's also been quite a bit of discussion about how Tharkold's social is too high or it's only that high because psionics or how in practice it's lower because of the world laws.

Among players. Clearly the game designers feel differently. I guess it might help to examine what a low Social axiom really means.

  • First of all, no Psionics. The weakest Psionic powers begin to manifest at Social rank 19, when exceptional folks start manifesting weak precognition. At Social 5 you are very far away from any such powers.

  • People can form into basic tribes. You’ll see no community organization or government more complex than a small group of people helping each other survive. And keep in mind that’s the maximum organization even possible in that axiom, most likely you wouldn’t even have that except as a very rare exception or maybe even one tribe (a small group of separate allied families) in existence somewhere in the world as an aberration. You’re more likely to have a bunch of individuals and small-medium size families living apart from each other (extended families appear in Social 4, small families in Social 2). Most cosms don’t reach the limits of their axioms except for extreme cases; that’s why you don’t find bronze tools, ships, and bows in the Living Land even though the Tech axiom supports it.

  • Spoken language exists, but no real written language. Some artwork and pictographic symbols may exist but they’d be exceptionally rare. What little knowledge people possess is passed down via oral tradition.

  • There is no commerce. Not even barter. You have what you find, make, or steal. Or maybe something is provided to you by a family member. But the idea of trade would be foreign and beyond the understanding of people.

  • Individual freedoms are far off. Even a crude form of democracy requires Social 10. On a positive note, there is no slavery either. Most likely anyone outside your family unit is either someone to avoid or kill, unless there is a clear advantage in allying with them (which again would be very rare as alliances push the limit of the axiom).
It’s difficult to combine those extreme limitations above with exceptionally high Magic and Technology axioms. But one way I can see it working is this way...

You have technological artifacts that have been found by families who keep them as heirlooms. They don’t know how to make such tools or where they came from, but they ascribe them to gods or other mythological beings who left or provided them. At a Spirit 9 not only are religions supported, but invisible divine forces may exist. So possibly they really were provided by divine beings. The knowledge of how to use these tools are passed down through generations.

Magic exists and is especially powerful but likely a combination of instinctual ability and oral teaching. Probably resembling Druidic magic in ways. With Magic being so prominent I wouldn’t be surprised if what little art and pictographs exist are magical symbols. And probably all sentient beings and many (most?) animals and even plants are inherently magical.

I imagine a wild, wondrous magical wilderness with amazing powerful technological gadgets being treasured as heirlooms and treated as just another form of magic, or alternatively magic is treated as common and technology is sacred and a piece of divinity to be revered and treasured. Not an impossible cosm but certainly a weird one.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

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Greymarch2000
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Greymarch2000 » Tue May 21, 2019 7:45 pm

There's more than one type of Post-Apocalyptic style. For every Fallout or Mad Max you also have a Yor, Hunter From the Future or Planet of the Apes (Humans specifically).

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Atama
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Re: magic: 25 tech: 27 spirit: 9 social: 5 - 17th May 2019

Postby Atama » Tue May 21, 2019 7:54 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:There's more than one type of Post-Apocalyptic style. For every Fallout or Mad Max you also have a Yor, Hunter From the Future or Planet of the Apes (Humans specifically).

Planet of the Apes has to have a Social axiom a lot higher than 5. They also didn’t have what seemed like particularly high Tech. (Though again that’s hard to judge, as I said before I’m paraphrasing Deanna, axioms are maximums not minimums so you could have a high Tech axiom without having pervasive high technology everywhere.)
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)


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