Migratory Birds

Pneumonica
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Migratory Birds

Postby Pneumonica » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:03 pm

I'm almost positive this has been answered, but I can't find it. (This came up in the previous Torg as well.) Where is there an explanation for what happens to migratory birds in Realms? The issue being that, by appearance, if they transform, their migratory patterns will take them out of the Realm and cause them to die en masse.
A mathematician, a scientist, and an engineer are asked: "Say you define a tail as a leg. How many legs does a horse have?" The mathematician says, "5." The scientist, "1." The engineer, "You can't do that!"

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Gargoyle
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:39 pm

Pneumonica wrote:I'm almost positive this has been answered, but I can't find it. (This came up in the previous Torg as well.) Where is there an explanation for what happens to migratory birds in Realms? The issue being that, by appearance, if they transform, their migratory patterns will take them out of the Realm and cause them to die en masse.


African or European?
"That old chestnut?"

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Atama
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Atama » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:39 pm

I imagine they’d die, or transform in an axiom wash to a bird species native to the realm that isn’t migratory. Puppies and kitties in the Living Land face a similar likely “transform or die” eventual fate (though that’s death by being eaten).

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Gargoyle
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:42 pm

A more optimistic approach is that they'd avoid realm boundaries and adopt new migratory patterns. So some wouldn't survive, but life would find a way and some would adapt because of instinct.
"That old chestnut?"

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Stewbacca
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Stewbacca » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:47 pm

i would guess they avoid realm boundaries since at least in oTorg, the realms were bound by heavy storms.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:08 pm

Pneumonica wrote:I'm almost positive this has been answered, but I can't find it. (This came up in the previous Torg as well.) Where is there an explanation for what happens to migratory birds in Realms? The issue being that, by appearance, if they transform, their migratory patterns will take them out of the Realm and cause them to die en masse.


Non sentient animals are not subject to "What Ifs". They don't require nearly as much Possibility Energy to transform as sentient beings.

This isn't something we've actually ruled on, but it would have to be true to fit a lot of the fiction.

But as for the specific question, for cases like this I advocate just deciding what you want to happen, and then come up with an ad hoc reason why that's true.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

Pneumonica
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Pneumonica » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks for everyone's insights! The same problem occurs in both versions, and was answered in just about the same way. I thought I'd seen something clarifying it in Eternity, but wires might've been crossed in my head.
A mathematician, a scientist, and an engineer are asked: "Say you define a tail as a leg. How many legs does a horse have?" The mathematician says, "5." The scientist, "1." The engineer, "You can't do that!"

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TorgHacker
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:10 pm

Pneumonica wrote:Thanks for everyone's insights! The same problem occurs in both versions, and was answered in just about the same way. I thought I'd seen something clarifying it in Eternity, but wires might've been crossed in my head.


It's always possible I've said something before and have forgotten.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

Blightcrawler
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Blightcrawler » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:59 pm

Without some ecological morphing, like we get in the Living Land, it might be that animals don't transform at all. Or they replenish possibility energy faster than humans do, and so staying put for a few months is enough.

That said, we're already in an extinction level event. It's unlikely that things look better in the Possibility Wars. The mass disruption of ecologies, of which migratory birds are just a part (there's lots of migratory animals, and plants and animals that depend on them) could make for a much more dramatic background to occasionally report to players, beyond just the events of the war itself.

Savioronedge
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Re: Migratory Birds

Postby Savioronedge » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:56 pm

MPI (My Personal Interpretation) is that non-sentiments are the same thing to the Everlaws as non-living items...cars, buildings, planes, and mountains don't POOF if they transform a 2nd (or more) time. They just change almost as if the new reality needs these things to exist and therefore stabiilizes them, reinvigorating them with the minor amount of Posibility energy they need even as they change.

But, as Deanna said,
TorgHacker wrote:But as for the specific question, for cases like this I advocate just deciding what you want to happen, and then come up with an ad hoc reason why that's true.

These things are plot devices, not actors. If your story needs 5 out of a V of 8 ducks to suddenly cease to exist, then they do, for whatever reason you need.


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