Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

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TorgHacker
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:28 pm

Atama wrote:Reading over this preview again I think I see a discrepancy and/or typo...

In the “Arcane Knowledges” section it lists (what seem to be) four categories... Essences, Mixed Forces, Kindred, and Elements. I say it seems that those are four categories but it’s a bit tough to tell because there’s an unclosed set of parentheses that I think should be closed after “True Knowledge” going by context.

Later, it says that specialists choose a Perk to specialize in Elemental Magic, Essence Magic, Kindred Magic, or Principle Magic. Those 4 categories seem to match the list of 4 Arcane Knowledges except for “Mixed Forces” and “Principle Magic”.

Is that just a coincidence or did one of those terms get changed, with that change not making it into the preview? (I’m hoping that “Mixed Forces” was changed to “Principles”, as the former seems more awkward than the latter.)


Good eye! Yeah, this is still in editing/development, and that's a change that needs to be flagged.
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby Padre » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:21 pm

TorgHacker wrote:It's going to be gradually ported into the rest of the game. We reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally debated this, but we felt it was something that added a drawback that was interesting, harkened back to Original Torg, yet is easy to remember.

Since this is the case, would Disfavored be a major or minor limitation on a Weird Science gadget?

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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:25 pm

Padre wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:It's going to be gradually ported into the rest of the game. We reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally debated this, but we felt it was something that added a drawback that was interesting, harkened back to Original Torg, yet is easy to remember.

Since this is the case, would Disfavored be a major or minor limitation on a Weird Science gadget?


It probably would be a minor limitation, since it's also likely situational. Buuuuuuuut if it made EVERY test Disfavored? That's got some teeth to it too.
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby Rabbitball » Thu May 02, 2019 11:17 pm

Atama wrote:Is that just a coincidence or did one of those terms get changed, with that change not making it into the preview? (I’m hoping that “Mixed Forces” was changed to “Principles”, as the former seems more awkward than the latter.)


Sorry to jump in on this late; real world interference kept me away for a while. When I turned in the spell stuff, I had everything as Mixed Forces, even though it was originally presented to me as Principles.

I don't know what the final result will be, as I am not part of that process, but my reasoning for asking to call them Mixed Forces is this:
  • The original Torg Aysle Sourcebook uses the word principle ambiguously. Darkness, Light, and Magic were the Principle Knowledges, while the rule that forbade being affected by two spells of the same knowledge was called the Principle of Definition. This led me to want to remove the ambiguity.
  • If we looked at the original State Path Chart, each of the five Tier 2 knowledges directly connects to a different pair of Essences. In effect, they are unique mixtures of Essence pairs. The only pair not represented is Death and Time, but they never connected anyway.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sat May 04, 2019 5:44 am

I'm wondering how I can explain the non-contradiction of Cantrips for non-Ayslish in Aysle realm.
Doesn't Cantrips depend on The Law of Magic, which cannot be supported by non-Ayslish casters' reality?

And, is TorgE Homunculus a human-blood-eating mockery of life which requires the keeper to commit foul acts just to feed it, like oTorg Creature of Aysle?

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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby Savioronedge » Sat May 04, 2019 10:52 am

QuarrelBlue wrote:I'm wondering how I can explain the non-contradiction of Cantrips for non-Ayslish in Aysle realm.
Doesn't Cantrips depend on The Law of Magic, which cannot be supported by non-Ayslish casters' reality?


In Eternity, the only World Laws in effect are those of the Realm. Non-Aysle casters are not subject to their own Reality's laws while in Aysle.

Now, if cantrips were a direct function of the Magic Axiom, they would be a 1-case contradiction for anyone not from Aysle, but would be usable by Aysle characters anywhere, as a 1-case contradiction outside the Realm, which is not the desired function as I understand it.

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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby Rabbitball » Sun May 05, 2019 12:20 am

QuarrelBlue wrote:I'm wondering how I can explain the non-contradiction of Cantrips for non-Ayslish in Aysle realm.
Doesn't Cantrips depend on The Law of Magic, which cannot be supported by non-Ayslish casters' reality?


Aysle is so magical that it smooths over other realms' casters attempts to cast them while in Aysle. Cantrips are small spells that other realms know as minor spells that they forgot once they learned "real magic", but in Aysle, they are still useful, and the realm reminds these other casters of the incantations needed.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
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"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby TorgHacker » Tue May 21, 2019 5:16 pm

Padre wrote:
Sword of Spirit wrote:Are rituals intended to remain purely as plot devices? If so that's fine (and much preferable to strictly limiting how many you can know), but if there are going to be more concrete explanations, this book might be a good place to address it, along with other lingering questions about magic in general. I'd prefer if rituals were theoretically possible for anyone with the right skills (as in the dramatic skill resolution example), but if not, that would be useful to know also.

Other things that are mentioned on the axiom chart but not explained include Permanent spells and Improvised magic.

I'm definitely interested on the permanent and improvised magic as well.

In terms of rituals, I think we'll get some more info when we see the Core Earth Religions book from the NE kickstarter. IIRC, it's supposed to have some info on rituals and I suspect we can translate it over to magic rituals fairly easily.

Padre


So, finally getting around to replying to this now that we're sure what is going into the book.

1. Permanent spells, at least as far as making non-permanent spells permanent is going to be something a Gamma Perk does.

2. "Improvised Magic" is cantrips.

3. Rituals are generally just plot devices, at least for now.
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Wed May 22, 2019 2:35 am

TorgHacker wrote:
Padre wrote:
Sword of Spirit wrote:Are rituals intended to remain purely as plot devices? If so that's fine (and much preferable to strictly limiting how many you can know), but if there are going to be more concrete explanations, this book might be a good place to address it, along with other lingering questions about magic in general. I'd prefer if rituals were theoretically possible for anyone with the right skills (as in the dramatic skill resolution example), but if not, that would be useful to know also.

Other things that are mentioned on the axiom chart but not explained include Permanent spells and Improvised magic.

I'm definitely interested on the permanent and improvised magic as well.

In terms of rituals, I think we'll get some more info when we see the Core Earth Religions book from the NE kickstarter. IIRC, it's supposed to have some info on rituals and I suspect we can translate it over to magic rituals fairly easily.

Padre


So, finally getting around to replying to this now that we're sure what is going into the book.

1. Permanent spells, at least as far as making non-permanent spells permanent is going to be something a Gamma Perk does.

2. "Improvised Magic" is cantrips.

3. Rituals are generally just plot devices, at least for now.


Sounds good.
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Re: Aysle Preview #2 - Magic

Postby Sword of Spirit » Wed May 22, 2019 9:08 pm

So, finally getting around to replying to this now that we're sure what is going into the book.

1. Permanent spells, at least as far as making non-permanent spells permanent is going to be something a Gamma Perk does.

2. "Improvised Magic" is cantrips.

3. Rituals are generally just plot devices, at least for now.[/quote]

Good to know. I actually like rituals that way, because it allows another way for spellcasters to feel like they have more magical flexibility without actually being a power bump.


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