Telekinesis errata

vaminion
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby vaminion » Mon May 20, 2019 7:13 pm

Sounds like the simplest answer isn't a height limit, but speed relative to the psi. Dropping a guy to deal 20 damage to him is a lot less impressive if it takes you 4 rounds to lift the target that high.

mica
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby mica » Tue May 21, 2019 4:31 am

Is there manipulation like oTorg? Increase the difficulty to modify the effect - that sort of thing? Weak spells that are easy to cast but can be manipulated to become really impressive but with increased difficulty and risk of backlash.

GeniusCodeMonkey
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Tue May 21, 2019 9:07 am

mica wrote:Is there manipulation like oTorg? Increase the difficulty to modify the effect - that sort of thing? Weak spells that are easy to cast but can be manipulated to become really impressive but with increased difficulty and risk of backlash.


I doubt this will ever happen as the philosophy seems to be KISS (keep it stupidly simple, or keep it simple stupid).
Anything that involves working things out on the fly wont happen.
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utsukushi
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby utsukushi » Tue May 21, 2019 5:58 pm

I'm kind of hoping for ideas of more tweakable magic in the CyberPapacy, maybe. (Because to me that was always a CP thing, more than Aysle. Aysle may have better spells, but you need a Cyberwitch to start hacking them.) It wouldn't actually be hard to replicate a lot of that through Perks. You could have a Perk, say, that lets you add +2 to the Casting Difficulty of a spell in exchange for +2 damage, or one that lets you change a spell's Duration (say, make a 3-round spell Concentration, or vice-versa) but doubles the Backlash if you fail...

It's not oTorg's amazingly beautiful web of interconnected pieces, but it would have a lot of the same feeling while keeping Eternity's modular simplicity. And the advancement cost on it would be different, but at least in my head it feels about the same curve -- it was *expensive* learning all the different knowledges you needed to modify spells on the fly in oTorg, so needing multiple Perks to get a similar impact seems valid.

Savioronedge
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby Savioronedge » Tue May 21, 2019 9:30 pm

utsukushi wrote:I'm kind of hoping for ideas of more tweakable magic in the CyberPapacy, maybe. (Because to me that was always a CP thing, more than Aysle. Aysle may have better spells, but you need a Cyberwitch to start hacking them.) It wouldn't actually be hard to replicate a lot of that through Perks. You could have a Perk, say, that lets you add +2 to the Casting Difficulty of a spell in exchange for +2 damage, or one that lets you change a spell's Duration (say, make a 3-round spell Concentration, or vice-versa) but doubles the Backlash if you fail...

It's not oTorg's amazingly beautiful web of interconnected pieces, but it would have a lot of the same feeling while keeping Eternity's modular simplicity. And the advancement cost on it would be different, but at least in my head it feels about the same curve -- it was *expensive* learning all the different knowledges you needed to modify spells on the fly in oTorg, so needing multiple Perks to get a similar impact seems valid.

Case in point: the only time I ever saw Casting on the Fly was my Cyberwhich.

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby QuarrelBlue » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:59 am

Maybe

*)Movement of telekinetically carried object is calculated with normal movement rule and is different from telekinetic swinging/throwing speed.
*)You can throw a thing telekinetically, but you can't catch the thing telekinetically at the same turn.
*)You can lift an object with Telekinesis without supporting ground below, but its Movement upward is as fast as normal Climbing.
*)Telekinetic grapple can be broken free as normal.

...can be reasonable explanation.
("Telekinetic Lift & Throw" tactic can be fairly discouraged with this, but considering other ways(and villains) snatching targets sky-high to give lethal fall, maybe what we need is the way to let Storm Knights(and major villains) survive a seemingly-lethal fall.)
If you still need to separate Levitation from Telekinesis, "Telekinesis uses your Ego as a fulcrum, so you cannot move yourself with it." may explain the limitation.
(But then Movement enhancement like Sprinter Perk or Chod Rabbitjack Implant can increase speed of telekineticlly-moved object?)

*by the way, can the target see the incoming telekinetic grapple and defend normally? If you can defend normally just after feeling unseen "touch" it will be okay, but if defense needs seeing incoming attack, unseen telekinetic grapple can catch the target Flat-footed!

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TorgHacker
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:11 am

QuarrelBlue wrote:*by the way, can the target see the incoming telekinetic grapple and defend normally? If you can defend normally just after feeling unseen "touch" it will be okay, but if defense needs seeing incoming attack, unseen telekinetic grapple can catch the target Flat-footed!


Yes. Power doesn't say it's invisible or catches you Flat Footed.
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pkitty
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby pkitty » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:47 am

Deanna, I'm a bit unclear on how vertical range works now.

1. Someone is flying over my head, 20m in the air. I want to grapple them with TK. Cool?

2. Once I've grappled them, if my TK is strong enough, can I pull them down to earth?

3. I can't lift myself, but if I'm strong enough to lift someone else, can I do so?

4. If the answer to #3 is no, can the person just stand on a table and then I lift the table?
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TorgHacker
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:12 am

pkitty wrote:Deanna, I'm a bit unclear on how vertical range works now.

1. Someone is flying over my head, 20m in the air. I want to grapple them with TK. Cool?

2. Once I've grappled them, if my TK is strong enough, can I pull them down to earth?

3. I can't lift myself, but if I'm strong enough to lift someone else, can I do so?

4. If the answer to #3 is no, can the person just stand on a table and then I lift the table?


GM's call.

But if I was GMing...

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

agarrett
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Re: Telekinesis errata

Postby agarrett » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:37 am

TorgHacker wrote:
pkitty wrote:Deanna, I'm a bit unclear on how vertical range works now.

1. Someone is flying over my head, 20m in the air. I want to grapple them with TK. Cool?

2. Once I've grappled them, if my TK is strong enough, can I pull them down to earth?

3. I can't lift myself, but if I'm strong enough to lift someone else, can I do so?

4. If the answer to #3 is no, can the person just stand on a table and then I lift the table?


GM's call.

But if I was GMing...

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.


As TorgHacker said it's GM's call, I'm not actually disagreeing with her, but I'd make a slightly different call on the second question (if you grappled, can you pull them down). I'd say no.

First off, unless you restrain them, at a good success or better on the grapple, there's no limitations on their movement anyway, so no reason to give you control of pulling them down. But then, if you do restrain them, you get to hold them in place, they're flat footed to all attacks, and the only action they can take on their turn is to attempt to break free. It does not give you control over their movement, and I wouldn't add that since it opens up a big can of worms. TK only lets you do things you can normally, just at a distance - that's the whole point of this errata, and I wouldn't add movement control to restraint as an exception - keeping in mind I also don't allow you to move someone you've restrained in a normal grapple.


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