PC Ravagons

johntfs
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PC Ravagons

Postby johntfs » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:08 pm

One of the bits I really liked from Old TORG was the introduction of Ravagons as playable characters just due to the "Darth Vader effect" (there are few things more inspiring and encouraging than watching something that scared the piss out out of you going after one of your enemies). So, to that end,
Ravagon PCs

Racial Abilities

Attribute Limit: Cha: 7 Dex 14 Mind: 12 Spirit 13 Strength 14 (note that these are for renegade PC Ravagons. Those still serving the Gaunt may very well exceed these because of the Gaunt Man.

Natural Weapons: Claws doing Strength+2 damage

Natural Armor: Thick hide giving Armor+3

Flight: This is mechanically identical to the Flight Pulp Power with the following modifications: Move 11 Limitations: Minor (Can't be used in a scene after being KOed); Minor: Restricted (Can only be used outdoors or in large, unconfined areas(A catherdral is fine. A typical office building, not so much)

Outsider: Ravagons are known and feared/hated throughout all the Cosms. -4 to Persuasion attempts with anyone not personally, directly acquainted with and friendly with them.

Faith-inclined: Renegade Ravagons cannot learn either magic or psionic skills or Perks. This includes the Occult Perks. They are Disfavored with any action using a magical or psionic item.

Spiritual Affinity: Renegade Ravagons draw upon spiritual energy and will suffer an extra Shock point on a Fatigue result in Realms with a Spiritual axiom below 16 (Core Earth, Pan-Pacifica and Tharkold, plus any "pocket realm/areas that meet this description).

While Ravagons are initially under the axioms and World Laws of Orrorsh, they choose their Perks from those that are unrestricted as well as the Outsider and Reality lists.

As somewhat spiritual beings Renegade Ravagons will frequently have the Faith skill. They are generally attracted to beliefs that are fairly straightforward and "action inclined" like Kata Kelles, Aylish Light or Balance dieties and the more Fire and Brimstone inclined Core Earth faiths. Despite that, they shun the Sacellum seeing it as a tool of the Gaunt Man.

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Wotan
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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby Wotan » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:58 pm

TBH I'm coming at this from a perspective that playable Ravagons belong in the same bin of "Nope!" as playable Tharkoldu, so take the below with the caveat that I may not have managed to compensate for my confirmation bias.

But your suggested framework feels OP. Not so much because you haven't built any disadvantages in but more because they're not likely to be serious disadvantages for someone looking to play the sort of PC build that a Ravagon is suited for.

The Dex and Str maximums scream "combat build", and often players making one of those end up dumping charisma anyway. So, although the Charisma restriction makes thematic sense it's probably not a significant down side. Outsider is, again, a theoretical downside but anyone capped at Charisma 7 isn't likely to be doing the party's talking anyway.
The claws aren't anything new as a PC race ability (edeinos) but Flight and +3 armour (without dex restrictions) are both massively useful freebies.
The restrictions on Psi and Magic aren't that significant either IMHO, especially with Miracles still on the table. "Power user" ravagons are still possible, you just don't have an option on the path. You have to pick the one requiring the least skill point investment, which also arguably best fits a combat/power user build (works off Spirit, so more Shock, most religions grant access to some fine combat powers, e.g. Healing Soothe & Bless)
And you get access to the Reality Perks, which is thematic but also pretty handy (& synergies with Faith also coming off of Spirit). I honestly don't see the thematic reasoning for Ayslish Outsider Perks.
The spiritual affinity downside is thematic, but not that significant a disadvantage (judging by the elves and heavy armour wearers I've had at my table).

Mostly I'm looking at this and imagining what my table's min-maxer could do with it, in terms of making a murderhobo, and I'm just thinking "Nope, not happening".

Even with a more balanced looking ruleset, I think having a ravgon in the party is the sort of thing that I'd allow the group as a whole to veto (the other SKs essentially say, "no, we're not partying with one of them" to the DC.) Plus, it feels a little bit like the ravagon player gets to play a superior combat/miracles build at the expense of the rest of the group having to answer the awkward social skill related Qs with civilians (cos the ravagon is unlikely as heck to be making those rolls.) *shrug*

Your mileage obviously varies, and if it works for your table cool. :)
But I'd suggest that more significant downsides, or gating some of these benefits behind racial perks might make for a better balance compared to other PC races.
/tuppence
Last edited by Wotan on Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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johntfs
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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby johntfs » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:28 pm

Fair points. Okay, let's add

Altered axioms: While Ravagons hail from Orrorsh and are considered to be of that reality, their personal axioms are slightly different

Magic: 0; Social: 12; Spiritual: 18 Tech: 8

Not only are Ravagons open to disconnection for using tools/concepts higher than their personal axioms, they are considered to be Disfavored when doing so.

Finally, should a Renegade Ravagon transform to a different reality, they will physically transform into a denizen of that reality, usually a human.

Spiritual Affinity means that they take fatigue in any cosm with a Spiritual axiom lower than 18 - including their "home cosm" of Orrorsh.

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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby Savioronedge » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:28 pm

By the time in the old war that Ravagons stated rebelling, the other PCs were expected to have some hefty experience behind them. When your party no longer feared the appearance of a Ravagon, it wasn't to overpowering to add one to the group.

As for balance, Edeinos have an option for flight(ish) at the cost of a Perk (and other restrictions); I don't believe it would be too restrictive to require a Ravagon player to "Spend" one of the starting 2 Perks on the flight ability. Maybe even simply state, "The starting 2 Perks for a Ravagon character must be 《whatever you call Flight ability》and 《whatever you call the armor ability》,"

By requiring other overstrong racial abilities to be purchased as Perks as well, you would assure that one couldn't start a Ravagon character until the party was sufficiently advanced for the rest to not be rendered meaningless by the addition of the monster.

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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:32 am

Savioronedge wrote:By the time in the old war that Ravagons stated rebelling, the other PCs were expected to have some hefty experience behind them. When your party no longer feared the appearance of a Ravagon, it wasn't to overpowering to add one to the group.

As for balance, Edeinos have an option for flight(ish) at the cost of a Perk (and other restrictions); I don't believe it would be too restrictive to require a Ravagon player to "Spend" one of the starting 2 Perks on the flight ability. Maybe even simply state, "The starting 2 Perks for a Ravagon character must be 《whatever you call Flight ability》and 《whatever you call the armor ability》,"

By requiring other overstrong racial abilities to be purchased as Perks as well, you would assure that one couldn't start a Ravagon character until the party was sufficiently advanced for the rest to not be rendered meaningless by the addition of the monster.


This is what i did for Tharkoldu in the Paraverse. Basically all Tharkoldu start with the same 2 perks that make them "Tharkoldu" and then from there they can diversify.
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johntfs
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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby johntfs » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:48 am

Savioronedge wrote:By the time in the old war that Ravagons stated rebelling, the other PCs were expected to have some hefty experience behind them. When your party no longer feared the appearance of a Ravagon, it wasn't to overpowering to add one to the group.

As for balance, Edeinos have an option for flight(ish) at the cost of a Perk (and other restrictions); I don't believe it would be too restrictive to require a Ravagon player to "Spend" one of the starting 2 Perks on the flight ability. Maybe even simply state, "The starting 2 Perks for a Ravagon character must be 《whatever you call Flight ability》and 《whatever you call the armor ability》,"

By requiring other overstrong racial abilities to be purchased as Perks as well, you would assure that one couldn't start a Ravagon character until the party was sufficiently advanced for the rest to not be rendered meaningless by the addition of the monster.


I think that would work best. I'll give them the edeinos stat block with Outsider and Claws and then their two starting perks are Flight and Armor.

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Kuildeous
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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby Kuildeous » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:59 pm

johntfs wrote:I'll give them the edeinos stat block with Outsider and Claws and then their two starting perks are Flight and Armor.


In the interest of keeping PCs flexible, I think the Armor could be an optional perk. Just like some edeinos are tougher than others, some ravagons can be tougher than others. Or weaker, depending on how you look at it.

Technically, I suppose Flight could be optional if the PC concept is a ravagon who's had its wings sheared or suffering from some other injury/ailment. Probably give the player the option of swapping out those perks with a good enough story reason.
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johntfs
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Re: PC Ravagons

Postby johntfs » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:42 pm

Kuildeous wrote:
johntfs wrote:I'll give them the edeinos stat block with Outsider and Claws and then their two starting perks are Flight and Armor.


In the interest of keeping PCs flexible, I think the Armor could be an optional perk. Just like some edeinos are tougher than others, some ravagons can be tougher than others. Or weaker, depending on how you look at it.

Technically, I suppose Flight could be optional if the PC concept is a ravagon who's had its wings sheared or suffering from some other injury/ailment. Probably give the player the option of swapping out those perks with a good enough story reason.


That's a possibility (pun semi-intended) and I'll toss it out there as a player option, but generally figure if you're a Ravagon, you can fly with your wings and your hide is Armor+3 tough. Otherwise you probably don't make it to adulthood, much less get chosen to be part of the Gaunt Man's elite forces.

It's sort of like there might be an edeinos with some weird birth defect that can't grow Claw+2, but figure a normal edeinos has claws because of what they are just like humans generally have two eyes/arms/legs.

So, taking another shot at this:

Ravagon PCs

The Gaunt Man has seen (and destroyed) many cosms. The Ravagons originally hail from one of these. While most Ravagons believe the Gaunt Man saved them from a great calamity and serve him in eternal gratitude a very few among them remember that the Gaunt Man caused that calamity and still cling to the old ways through a strong oral tradition. Though their old world is long vanished, these few hope to avenge it and themselves then perhaps somehow find a new home to thrive and rebuild.

Racial Abilities

Attribute Limit: Cha: 10 Dex 13 Mind: 11 Spirit 14 Strength 14 (note that these are for renegade PC Ravagons. Those still serving the Gaunt may very well exceed these because of the Gaunt Man.

Natural Weapons: Claws doing Strength+2 damage

Natural Armor: Thick hide giving Armor+3 [This uses a starting Perk]

Flight: This is mechanically identical to the Flight Pulp Power with the following modifications: Move 11 Limitations: Minor (Can't be used in a scene after being KOed); Minor: Restricted (Can only be used outdoors or in large, unconfined areas(A catherdral is fine. A typical office building, not so much) In addition, Ravagons may not wear any Armor defined as Fatiguing as it is too bulky/distracting to allow them to fly)

Outsider: Ravagons are known and feared/hated throughout all the Cosms. -4 to Persuasion attempts with anyone not another renegade ravagon or personally, directly acquainted with and friendly with them.

Ravagon Soul: Renegade Ravagons still operate under the Axioms (but not World Laws as those are long gone with the old Cosm) of their old cosm: Magic: 0; Social: 9; Spirit 16; Tech: 10. Because their home cosm no longer exists, renegade ravagons exist in a kind of "permanent disconnection" and must use tool/abilities that fall under the lowest of either their "personal axioms" or those of the Cosm that they're or risk Disconnection. They are also considered to be Stymied and Disfavored when using tools/abilities that leave them open to Disconnection and/or Transformation. A Ravagon who Transforms to another reality loses his Ravagon Soul but also had his wings rapidly rot and fall off, leaving him without his Flight ability. At this point the Outsider hindrances applies renegade ravagons as well.

Due to their Armor, renegade Ravagons may only choose one starting Perk at character creation and must choose from those Perks that are either open to those from any cosm or do not otherwise violate the strictures of the Ravagon Soul (no Spellcaster, Psionic, etc.)


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