getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

utsukushi
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby utsukushi » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:55 pm

First... now that I've finally stopped laughing - OMG, Kuildeus! That comment about how your players reacted to the "Quantum Leap" scenario was hilarious. I laughed - out loud - for like two minutes. Especially knowing that you were really doing Quantum Leap, so Sam is, like, an angel, or at least definitely on the side of "Good", and... yeah, I can see how that would Not Go Well. But Not Go Well in such a perfect way. That's brilliant.


...Anyway, one of the things I've always felt Torg kind of missed (and which is not changing) is the ability to play that mix of cultures in a more serious way, too. Characters being limited to their core reality is cool to a point, and I don't want everyone to end up with All The Things, but I do want the characters to be able to... mature through their multi-Cosm experiences. The Elven Knight should be able to decide a laser gun is better than a sword and he wants to master it with the same dedication. A Nile Hero who saves a village in Orrorsh - why can't they be awarded a Medal for that? An Edeinos Priest exposed to real Martial Arts making the connection between Chi and Life-force. Most of these are probably the opposite of min/maxing - they require a sudden heavy investment in a whole new area. But they make sense.

Yeah, the occulcyber-werewolf ninjamage with the rocket pack who calls on both the CyberPapal God and Lanaala is a joke, but I really want there to be a way for people to push their personal envelope, here and there, in ways that make sense for the character and story.

And yeah, it seems easy enough to house rule, but again, that only works if you're the GM. Just having an inset somewhere in the books that says, "Usually characters can't buy Perks from other Cosms, but under the right circumstances..." or something, would make a big difference there, without pushing it into `silly'. Maybe a Perk that allows the incorporation of a specific item beyond your personal Axioms, into your personal Reality, you know? It doesn't seem like it would be impossible to bring into the game in a way that wouldn't just lose control and throw it all off the rails. It should be `expensive', but it should also be possible.

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TorgHacker
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:08 pm

And it might be, later in the war. I can easily see a Perk that requires "Gamma Clearance" experience that would allow you to pick one Perk from another cosm.

That's not to say we're going to do it...I'm just saying that's a possibility down the line. (pun not intended).
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Kuildeous
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:10 pm

I felt the cross-contamination was a strength of oTorg. Not to the level of Nexus Kaah, but cyberware did make its way to some lower-tech heroes. Of course, in addition to the threat of disconnection, cyberware had another price to pay in oTorg. And quite a few heroes outside of Aysle got to enjoy Honor adds.

I imagine I may house rule that cross-contamination is still possible, but I'll hold off at least until the cosm books all come out before making that call. We might not even miss it.
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TiaMaster
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby TiaMaster » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:55 pm

I definitely down-played cross contamination in the setting, but not with the Knights. Though I love the whole IDEA of it, I did not inundate the players with sights of centaurs in suits and edeinos martial artists. If that sort of thing were there, it was because that NPC was important to the story. Pretty much how I played reality-rated beings anyway. Maybe if I had ran things consistently for years down the road like some of you guys that stuff would be more common.
That said, my players would sometimes have cyberware or use a spell. I don't think I could run a TORG game without items of different cosms finding their way into players hands.
I truly hope there are rules for that this time, and its not just expected that GMs will figure it out. (I am of course not speaking of just using a Mishap, but actually gaining Perks)

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Gargoyle
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:10 pm

TorgHacker wrote:And it might be, later in the war. I can easily see a Perk that requires "Gamma Clearance" experience that would allow you to pick one Perk from another cosm.

That's not to say we're going to do it...I'm just saying that's a possibility down the line. (pun not intended).


It just makes sense that players will want to go in that direction eventually. Some will want to have it right away, and I think that's a bad way to do it, but having a Core Earth character learn a bit of magic in a long running game or have an Aysle barbarian replace his missing arm with some cutting edge cybertech just makes sense if the campaign has gone on long enough for the players and GM to get some "less-gonzo" adventures done without cyber-werewolves, etc. Torg is weird enough without all that right off the bat. If you make it official and require a certain amount of XP, then it would be a good thing to guide GM's to only allow it for more experienced characters. Of course experienced GMs can and will do what they want, I'm just thinking for a group new to Torg it would be smart to have guidelines for this stuff rather than saying "no". my 2 cents
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Kuildeous
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:38 pm

TorgHacker wrote:And it might be, later in the war. I can easily see a Perk that requires "Gamma Clearance" experience that would allow you to pick one Perk from another cosm.

That's not to say we're going to do it...I'm just saying that's a possibility down the line. (pun not intended).


Somehow I missed this post even though I posted right after it.

But I think that a perk which allows one to buy out of realm would be great at higher clearance levels. Another prerequisite (in case you have one of those players) is that the GM has to agree that the character warrants the perk. Or perhaps that can be an optional rule, so that GMs who dislike that part can ignore it without too much hassle from their players. And other GMs could make it available from the beginning. The Gamma rule sounds doable though.
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Jim
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Jim » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:12 pm

I really like that there are barriers from cherry-picking perks right in the rules. I'm self-determined enough as a GM that I can bend that rule if I want, but I want the players to know its restricted when they read the rules.

A perk that is introduced in Year Two or Year Three, after the cosm books are done, sounds like a fair idea.

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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby MAJT » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:35 pm

I don't see it's a problem if people want to make house rules - if you want have that cyber-ninja-werewolf-psionic-superhero, you can do so. (Although now so many cool things require a Perk, so that kind of gonzo character sounds harder to do now than before).

But I think it's a very good thing that's not the baseline, and characters are supposed to be more focused on their cosms in the official rules.

Another thing that occurs to me is this, from Shamus Young's review of Mass Effect 3:

Imagine you’re going to play one of those nerdy tabletop games with your friends. Rather than invent new characters for my hypothetical game, let’s just borrow a few. The players around the table have the following characters:

Boromir: A son of nobility but not royalty, he’s a stalwart man who trusts more in arms than in magic. His mind is often on his troubled homeland.

Frodo: A gentle idealist. He hates violence, but understands the necessity of it. He’s reluctant to draw blood, but also curiously wise and forward-thinking for a halfling.

Gimli: Dwarf. Proud. Practical. Loyal. Simple.

And then there’s this guy. Let’s call him Josh. Josh brings in this character:

Xantar Shadowwalker: A reincarnation of an elven god that was slain by an army ten thousand years ago. He’s a half-elf with a clockwork robo-arm. He carries a glowing samurai sword, wears a Zoro mask and a black cape, and has glowing white eyes. Xantar doesn’t have a fixed personality, but seems to jump from being a swaggering sarcastic joker, to a gravel-voiced agent of vengeance, to an unflappable gentleman, depending on whatever will make the biggest scene.


Yes, Torg assumes more outlandish characters than almost any other game out there, but that doesn't mean that the cyber-ninja-werewolf-psionic-superhero won't feel out of place in a party with a Core Earth cop, Edineos Optant, Masked Pulp Hero, Aysle Mage and Kanawa spy.

At least this way, by RAW, characters stay grounded to their cosms throughout the game. You can house-rule it as you wish, but the game is intended to be playable without everyone having a bit of everything as the default.

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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby ProfessorK » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:55 pm

Jim wrote:I really like that there are barriers from cherry-picking perks right in the rules. I'm self-determined enough as a GM that I can bend that rule if I want, but I want the players to know its restricted when they read the rules.


Agreed. If in doubt its always best to say No up front. If a no turns into a yes later nobody minds, the same is not true in reverse.

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Kuildeous
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Re: getting rid of the silly aspects of Torg

Postby Kuildeous » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:57 pm

Also, it'll be slower to build up in Torg Eternity, so while double-dipping is possible, it'll be expensive, and total cross-contamination is very cost-prohibitive.

In addition, everything seems to cost XP in Torg Eternity. In oTorg, you could get cyberware as long as you had enough money and the right contacts. Then you could get Honor adds by doing the right thing in Aysle and rolling well. You could get pulp powers if you underwent a traumatic shock that the GM felt was worthy of a pulp power. And of course you gain miracles by increasing Faith and Focus and gain spells by spending only one Possibility.

Those days are gone. You could still cross-contaminate, but you have to buy a perk for the cyberware. If a perk gets you one to three spells, then that's arguably more expensive than oTorg.

There were ways to get these things for free in oTorg. No more, it seems.
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