3 Glory cards played in one round!

ryric
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3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby ryric » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Our group uses a lot of cooperation on the card playing. We tend to average 2-3 Glory plays per session, which do chain off each other as it's much easier to get the requisite combos together with 7 card hands rather than 4. Our last session was very RP heavy with little die rolling, and we were about a half hour from finishing the session - and no one had played a Glory yet. We had one fight with giant spiders in the Living Land and we managed three Glories in one round. Our "standard" method of playing Glory consists of "roll a 30 or higher naturally, then Hero+Drama+Possibility = guaranteed 60+." Doing three in one round did involve two players playing for the Critical moment in the first round to get the cards they needed, and the third was legit rolled on just dice + a Possibility with the Glory card coming out due to Situational Awareness. Our poor GM. We haven't had a 4 card hand since session 1.

So, we got off three Glories in the first round of combat! We pulled off one more post-combat bringing our session total to 4 and giving us temporarily an 11 card hand size, which is a new record even for us.

The only issue I see is that some of my fellow players are so focused on getting Glory out, that they trade away or discard other useful cards that don't work toward the Hero+Drama+Glory combo. So it's often up to me to keep workhorse cards like Action and Supporter and Coup de Grace so we at least have them in the party.

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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:48 pm

ryric wrote:Our group uses a lot of cooperation on the card playing. We tend to average 2-3 Glory plays per session, which do chain off each other as it's much easier to get the requisite combos together with 7 card hands rather than 4. Our last session was very RP heavy with little die rolling, and we were about a half hour from finishing the session - and no one had played a Glory yet. We had one fight with giant spiders in the Living Land and we managed three Glories in one round. Our "standard" method of playing Glory consists of "roll a 30 or higher naturally, then Hero+Drama+Possibility = guaranteed 60+." Doing three in one round did involve two players playing for the Critical moment in the first round to get the cards they needed, and the third was legit rolled on just dice + a Possibility with the Glory card coming out due to Situational Awareness. Our poor GM. We haven't had a 4 card hand since session 1.

So, we got off three Glories in the first round of combat! We pulled off one more post-combat bringing our session total to 4 and giving us temporarily an 11 card hand size, which is a new record even for us.

The only issue I see is that some of my fellow players are so focused on getting Glory out, that they trade away or discard other useful cards that don't work toward the Hero+Drama+Glory combo. So it's often up to me to keep workhorse cards like Action and Supporter and Coup de Grace so we at least have them in the party.

Look at the FAQ. Only 1 extra card is allowed. Additional Glories don't add. It was a rule adjustment because of glory spirals
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ryric
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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby ryric » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:44 pm

I didn't even know there was a FAQ! Thanks.

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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby Kuildeous » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:48 pm

That may help your GM to keep things reasonable, though if you get three Glories in the first round due to Critical Moments and Situational Awareness, then the errata barely going to slow that down. It does keep the hand size smaller so that you don't quite ply through the entire deck so quickly. The extra Possibilities are still nice.
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ryric
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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby ryric » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:54 am

First session using the FAQ, and we still played four Glory cards. Two players took the FAQ as a personal challenge. One of them was played on a natural 68 on the dice - no Possibilities or cards spent, just an improbable roll along with Up on the initiative line. We've now played 8 Glories in this one region in a span of a few days. Our Gm has declared us the Delphi Council's "prep before ripping up Stelae" team, as we seem to be good at getting off inspiring events. Also I'm pretty sure we have the direct attention of at least Baruk Kaah - we've played about 15 Glories in the Living land alone.

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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:43 am

ryric wrote:First session using the FAQ, and we still played four Glory cards. Two players took the FAQ as a personal challenge. One of them was played on a natural 68 on the dice - no Possibilities or cards spent, just an improbable roll along with Up on the initiative line. We've now played 8 Glories in this one region in a span of a few days. Our Gm has declared us the Delphi Council's "prep before ripping up Stelae" team, as we seem to be good at getting off inspiring events. Also I'm pretty sure we have the direct attention of at least Baruk Kaah - we've played about 15 Glories in the Living land alone.


I can't help but wonder if there's something being done that shouldn't be.

You're playing a Glory card for _each_ Glory result, right? Not multiple cards on a single roll of 60+?

How many players do you have at the table?

If a player plays for the Critical Moment, is their hand and pool completely empty by the end of the action? Are all the cards being played _just_ on the action? (i.e. if a Leadership is in the player's hand, it'll only get lost, and can't be played since it doesn't directly affect the action.

From page 113:
Once per act, as a free action, a player may play
her entire hand directly into her pool. This is called
playing for the “Critical Moment."

These cards must be used to immediately affect one character’s
actions, either the one who played them or an ally.
Any cards that aren’t used are discarded, meaning
the player’s hand and pool are both completely
empty after playing for the “Critical Moment


And yes, if your group is that amazing, Kaah would be sending big guns at you.

Preferably on Round 2. :-)
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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby Kuildeous » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:51 pm

That does seem high, though certainly not impossible. It may be worth checking the rules as Deanna suggested just to make sure everything is done right (I can't count the number of rules we got wrong in oTorg).

But a truly devoted group can pull this off. It's actually not that hard to game.

Say you have five players. That's 20 cards from the drama deck without taking into account prior Glories or the Nile Empire. That's 1/3 of the deck right there. To pull off getting four glories in a game session (or at least before a reshuffle), you mostly need to make sure you have all four Glory cards, Drama cards, and Hero cards. The latter two are not required, but they help tilt the odds in your favor.

If you don't get all four Glory cards in your opening hands, then you cycle through the deck. Play as many cards as you can to get your hand close to empty by the end of the scene. You only need those 12 cards by the final scene. If everyone has an average of 1 card apiece at the end of the first scene, then they can draw 15 more cards and then discard one to draw another 5. That's the next 1/3 of the deck. By the third scene, they probably will have an average of 2 apiece, so they draw 10 more and then discard for another 5. That leaves 5 cards left in the deck to acquire through approved actions, leadership, etc.

And a roll of 30 is guaranteed to be a Glory if you have a Possibility, a Hero, and a Drama. But you don't have to wait for a 30. There's roughly a 9% chance that you won't roll more than 10 on any of the rerolls. If you feel feisty, you could play for Glories when you roll a 25. Maybe even lower that threshold.

So if your group is truly committed to it, they can have all 12 cards in their hands by the third scene. It wouldn't take much to crank out Glories by the end of the act. Throw in some Master Plans and reshuffling, and you could get more than 4 in an act. It could get insane.

This is one of those things that the GM needs to feel out. I'm not going to claim it's easy. It really isn't. Torg is a very swingy game. That's fun, but it also means the GM can accidentally go from cream puff to TPK. I've been bobbing with my group. I usually err on the easy side, but that makes it more satisfying when my group sweats bullets because that means I found a way to properly challenge them. I only wish I can keep that going for 100%.

But on those times when my group gets too big for their britches, I do the following:
* Don't make them roll everything. This sounds kind of mean, but I've lately taken to the philosophy that players only roll if failure is interesting. This means that I won't require rolls for a psychic to fly or for a wizard to use mage hands for something mundane. Whatever, you spend a couple of moments crapping your pants and then you do the thing and get back your Shock. I'll require the roll during tense action or when leading up to a tense action or if Shock cannot be easily regained. When the players only roll when things are interesting, that cuts down on gratuitous Glories.
* Hurt them. A lot. Too many Glories is indicative that the group is ready for a rise in challenge. If they're able to hoard the Hero and Drama cards, then they can afford to spend them to reduce damage. There are plenty of suggestions out there to increase the threat level: Eschew many-on-one rolls, use waves of enemies, throw in a few ravagons.
* Make use of Insidious or Gloater villains. They can remove cards, and I believe that Insidious lets you choose the card from the pool to remove.
* Don't be afraid to kill someone. Everyone's attached to their character in one way or another, but this is war, so casualties should be expected. But the thing is that new characters are at the same power level, so there's no mechanical penalty for dying (one can argue that, mechanically, dying is an improvement). On top of that, Storm Knights have two ways to get out of death. First, they can attempt a 20 reality roll to soak all the wounds. But if they take 5 or fewer wounds in one blow, then a 15 reality is good enough. Second, they just need to not fail the Defeat test. As long as the PC is not disconnected, he stands a really good chance at succeeding at one of these. The players are often far more resilient than we give them credit for.

Your GM's in a tough spot. It can be hard to present an exciting story while not going overboard. But these suggestions might help out in crafting that ideal situation.
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ryric
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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby ryric » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:05 pm

We saw the Critical Moment FAQ at the same time as the Glory FAQ, so we are doing it correctly as of last session. There are 5 players, and we liberally trade cards in hand at the beginning of an act to construct combos, and are not shy about trading cards in pools during combat. It's tough to use attrition on our group - we have an optant who knows Healing and Resurrection, with a Faith of 20. My PC has known Mend since creation and I've literally never had a wound last an hour to be able to use it. Her Reality is also huge due to high Spirit, so her soak rolls are easy even though her defenses are cruddy (Dodge/Unarmed of 6 or so). We have had one PC death, and it was from a Martyr card played by that player when we did see Baruk Kaah - in order to get a big hit off right after a Maelstrom card was played so he couldn't Soak or Dimthread away.

We are Beta level BTW; just hit 100 XP last night. It's making a huge difference in what we can pull off.

Also with 2 Core Earth heores, we can use Reality Surge cards to fish for Glory.

We can't exactly leave the Living Land right now - middle of God Box adventure - but I imagine we'll have to go elsewhere and for a while after this. I keep warning the other players that when we get to Orrorsh we've probably ended up on the Gaunt Man's personal radar by this point, so yikes.

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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:03 pm

Yeah, looks like you guys are cycling experts. In that case, I'd recommend going down to 1 or 2 Glory cards in the deck.
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Re: 3 Glory cards played in one round!

Postby blackwingedheaven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:47 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Yeah, looks like you guys are cycling experts. In that case, I'd recommend going down to 1 or 2 Glory cards in the deck.


Just to add some context here, this is my group. I'm both proud of and disgusted by them. And honestly, at this point, "big Glory or go home" is kind of their rallying cry. I'm not sure that I see multiple Glories per session as a bug so much as a feature of how their party is built to function. XD
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