Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

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JohnK
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Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby JohnK » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:15 pm

Hullo, folks,

A couple of questions about some Magic chapter errata, maybe.

On page 267, in the second column at the top, in the chart for Costs and Penalties, the Cost column... The Cost seems to increase as the Recharge Time decreases. Is that correct or should they be reversed?

In the same section, is the example with Mirhiban wanting to create the magical ring with the Penetrizzel spell correct?

On pages 272 to 274, in the Examples of Magical Elixirs, where it lists Cost per Ingredient Level, what is that cost? Is it the cost for each typical individual ingredient or what? Not sure I understand this one. The costs are all pretty much the same value, ranging between 40 and 65 Silverthalers, so I'm not getting this aspect of Elixirs at all.

Thanks, in advance.
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MadBeard
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby MadBeard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:24 am

JohnK wrote:On page 267, in the second column at the top, in the chart for Costs and Penalties, the Cost column... The Cost seems to increase as the Recharge Time decreases. Is that correct or should they be reversed?


It's correct.
The more AE you invest in magic item creation, item is more powerful ergo recharges faster.

JohnK wrote:In the same section, is the example with Mirhiban wanting to create the magical ring with the Penetrizzel spell correct?

Yes

JohnK wrote:On pages 272 to 274, in the Examples of Magical Elixirs, where it lists Cost per Ingredient Level, what is that cost? Is it the cost for each typical individual ingredient or what? Not sure I understand this one. The costs are all pretty much the same value, ranging between 40 and 65 Silverthalers, so I'm not getting this aspect of Elixirs at all.


Read Alchemical Brewing in Detail step 1. Preparing the Ingredients on page 270.
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby JohnK » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:38 pm

Hullo, MadBeard,

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:On page 267, in the second column at the top, in the chart for Costs and Penalties, the Cost column... The Cost seems to increase as the Recharge Time decreases. Is that correct or should they be reversed?


It's correct.
The more AE you invest in magic item creation, item is more powerful ergo recharges faster.


When you put it that way, it makes sense now. Thanks. :)

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:In the same section, is the example with Mirhiban wanting to create the magical ring with the Penetrizzel spell correct?


Yes


Okay, since the Costs and Penalties section is right, this makes sense now, too. :)

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:On pages 272 to 274, in the Examples of Magical Elixirs, where it lists Cost per Ingredient Level, what is that cost? Is it the cost for each typical individual ingredient or what? Not sure I understand this one. The costs are all pretty much the same value, ranging between 40 and 65 Silverthalers, so I'm not getting this aspect of Elixirs at all.


Read Alchemical Brewing in Detail step 1. Preparing the Ingredients on page 270.


Ah, so what that's saying is that the costs are the value given there, times the actual Ingredient Level, right? And that cost is incurred for each ingredient required for Alchemical Brewing? Or have I now missed that completely?
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby MadBeard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:41 pm

JohnK wrote:Ah, so what that's saying is that the costs are the value given there, times the actual Ingredient Level, right? And that cost is incurred for each ingredient required for Alchemical Brewing? Or have I now missed that completely?


Cost is for total ingredients that you need to brew potion. At least this is how I read it.
If you look at the Antidote price in equipment you'll see that price is 65 silverthalers per level. So cost of 40 silverthalers per level for all ingredients for Antidote make sense. Otherwise there is no profit for doing this :)

Also another thing, Typical ingredients entry is not telling you that you need all of the ingredients listed there. This are just examples which ingredients you can use to brew that potion.
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby JohnK » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Hullo, MadBeard,

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:Ah, so what that's saying is that the costs are the value given there, times the actual Ingredient Level, right? And that cost is incurred for each ingredient required for Alchemical Brewing? Or have I now missed that completely?


Cost is for total ingredients that you need to brew potion. At least this is how I read it.


Okay, then we've got a problem here...

MadBeard wrote:If you look at the Antidote price in equipment you'll see that price is 65 silverthalers per level. So cost of 40 silverthalers per level for all ingredients for Antidote make sense. Otherwise there is no profit for doing this :)


...because, using the example of the Antidote price on page 272, the problem I have is this. (The price given is a cost of 40 Silverthalers, not 65, per Ingredient Level.) If you go on the basis that the typical ingredients for said potion to cure a poison of Level 2 are Cinnabar, menchal juice and an ibis egg, those three ingredients must come out to more than the level for the Ingredients. Surely the ibis egg alone, if you had to buy it at shoppe or stall or whatever would be more than 55 Silverthalers to begin with, and what about the menchal juice and the cinnabar? So I have my doubts about this altogether.

MadBeard wrote:Also another thing, Typical ingredients entry is not telling you that you need all of the ingredients listed there. This are just examples which ingredients you can use to brew that potion.


That much I realised, but my feeling is that the costs are confusing for the type of potion or alchemical elixir. I wish there were an actual example of a character creating a potion or elixir, since that would give me a better idea on how some of this stuff works. *sigh*

And I wish there were actual errata *answers* to questions here, rather than just supposition based on the comparison with the German books at times. To be honest, I'm getting frustrated with the *censored!* errata stuff! :(
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby JohnK » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:37 pm

Hullo, folks,

A couple of more questions about the Magic stuff...

On page 287, the Analyze Arcane Structure spell, is the casting time really 32 actions? And is the AE cost of 16 correct? Why are they so high, given that you'd think the spell would be somewhat ineffective in and around combat?

Same thing on page 288 and the Balsam Salabunde. 16 actions to cast the spell? That's a long time in combat.

On page 288, for the Bannbaladin spell, I got confused by the Levels presented in the spell, but I'm now assuming these mean that the QL decreases the Levels given by one QL per Level. Am I correct in this?

There were a couple of other spells that I was having problems with, but I can't remember what they are now. Mind Like A Sieve(MLAS(tm)). *sigh*

Any other spells have problems that have cropped up that I should know about? :)
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby MadBeard » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:05 am

JohnK wrote:...because, using the example of the Antidote price on page 272, the problem I have is this. (The price given is a cost of 40 Silverthalers, not 65, per Ingredient Level.) If you go on the basis that the typical ingredients for said potion to cure a poison of Level 2 are Cinnabar, menchal juice and an ibis egg, those three ingredients must come out to more than the level for the Ingredients. Surely the ibis egg alone, if you had to buy it at shoppe or stall or whatever would be more than 55 Silverthalers to begin with, and what about the menchal juice and the cinnabar? So I have my doubts about this altogether.


I said that price for Antidote potion or if you will, final product is 65 silverthalers/lvl, and cost for ingredients is 40 silverthalers/lvl.
Another thing, I think you are overcomplicating this and there is no need for that at all :)
You don't need all those three ingredients you mentioned. Ingredients listed are just examples. There are many recipes to create same kind of potion.
Check this thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1101

JohnK wrote:On page 287, the Analyze Arcane Structure spell, is the casting time really 32 actions? And is the AE cost of 16 correct? Why are they so high, given that you'd think the spell would be somewhat ineffective in and around combat?

Same thing on page 288 and the Balsam Salabunde. 16 actions to cast the spell? That's a long time in combat.


Both spells are not meant to be cast in combat. Except for healing potion, there is no quick way to heal yourself in combat. Just don't get hit ;)

JohnK wrote:On page 288, for the Bannbaladin spell, I got confused by the Levels presented in the spell, but I'm now assuming these mean that the QL decreases the Levels given by one QL per Level. Am I correct in this?

No. It does just what it says.

...connection between target and caster improves by one level per QL (minimum of one level).


GM decide on which level of "friendship" they start with. In spell description are guidance for that.
If the target and caster don’t already know each other, the starting level is usually somewhere between 4 (Dislike) and 6 (Sympathy), though advantages like Good Looks and disadvantages like Prejudice can also affect this fist impression.


So if you never meet that guy and don't have any advantages or disadvantages, lets say that starting level is Level 5 (The target feels neutral about the spellcaster)
So if you cast spell with QL of 2. You improve your relationship by two levels, so level is now 7 (The target feels trust and friendship for the spellcaster).

That would be quite a nice spell to have for dealing with angry wifes/girlfriends :lol:
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JohnK
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby JohnK » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:53 am

Hullo, MadBeard,

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:...because, using the example of the Antidote price on page 272, the problem I have is this. (The price given is a cost of 40 Silverthalers, not 65, per Ingredient Level.) If you go on the basis that the typical ingredients for said potion to cure a poison of Level 2 are Cinnabar, menchal juice and an ibis egg, those three ingredients must come out to more than the level for the Ingredients. Surely the ibis egg alone, if you had to buy it at shoppe or stall or whatever would be more than 55 Silverthalers to begin with, and what about the menchal juice and the cinnabar? So I have my doubts about this altogether.


I said that price for Antidote potion or if you will, final product is 65 silverthalers/lvl, and cost for ingredients is 40 silverthalers/lvl.
Another thing, I think you are overcomplicating this and there is no need for that at all :)


In this case, I really feel that the overcomplication stems from the way the text is written. It's confusing, at least to me.

MadBeard wrote:You don't need all those three ingredients you mentioned. Ingredients listed are just examples. There are many recipes to create same kind of potion.
Check this thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1101


Just finished reading the thread in question. That makes a bit more sense to me now. Thanks for pointing out that thread. :)

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:On page 287, the Analyze Arcane Structure spell, is the casting time really 32 actions? And is the AE cost of 16 correct? Why are they so high, given that you'd think the spell would be somewhat ineffective in and around combat?

Same thing on page 288 and the Balsam Salabunde. 16 actions to cast the spell? That's a long time in combat.


Both spells are not meant to be cast in combat. Except for healing potion, there is no quick way to heal yourself in combat. Just don't get hit ;)


Oh, okay... Truthfully, this was not what I was expecting, as the implications earlier on in the book seemed to indicate... Ah, well, never mind. Like you said, don't get hit in combat! :)

MadBeard wrote:
JohnK wrote:On page 288, for the Bannbaladin spell, I got confused by the Levels presented in the spell, but I'm now assuming these mean that the QL decreases the Levels given by one QL per Level. Am I correct in this?


No. It does just what it says.

...connection between target and caster improves by one level per QL (minimum of one level).


GM decide on which level of "friendship" they start with. In spell description are guidance for that.
If the target and caster don’t already know each other, the starting level is usually somewhere between 4 (Dislike) and 6 (Sympathy), though advantages like Good Looks and disadvantages like Prejudice can also affect this fist impression.


So if you never meet that guy and don't have any advantages or disadvantages, lets say that starting level is Level 5 (The target feels neutral about the spellcaster)
So if you cast spell with QL of 2. You improve your relationship by two levels, so level is now 7 (The target feels trust and friendship for the spellcaster).


Ah, okay...gotcha. The QLs increase the Level on the small chart, improving the relationship. I was just reading it in reverse. Thanks for the clarification. :)
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Morgoth
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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby Morgoth » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:22 pm

@JohnK

It is possible to decrease casting times by taking penalties. There is full detail and a very important table in the Magic chapter (and also in the end of the book where all the important tables are reprinted) that explains this. I recall I wanted a way to summon demons in combat like you could in the Realms of Arkania pc games, and was trying to figure out how to do it as even Minor Invocation has a base casting time of 30mins.

Now speaking about that this reminds me: Can you take penalties multiple times in casting the same spell to lower it's cost multiple times also? So go from a casting time of 30mins to a couple of rounds?

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Re: Some Magic Errata, Perhaps?

Postby MadBeard » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Morgoth wrote:Now speaking about that this reminds me: Can you take penalties multiple times in casting the same spell to lower it's cost multiple times also? So go from a casting time of 30mins to a couple of rounds?


No you can't. At least not the same modification.
Page 256. Spell Modifications for Casting Time, Range, and AE Cost paragraph
It’s not possible to shift a category by more than one increment (see the table Increments for Spell Modifications).
For example, a spell with a casting time of 4 actions could be shifted either to a casting time of 2 actions or 8 actions, but not to 1 action or 16 actions. The same applies to range and AE cost.


You can apply multiple modification but just not the same one.
Page 255. Bottom right.
You can use one spell modification for every 4 full points of that spell’s SR. For example, if you have SR 4 in a spell, you can use one spell modification. You can use two if your SR is 8, three at SR 12, and so on. The check for the spell receives a bonus or penalty depending on the modification.
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