Elves And Spellcasting

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Schlake
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Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Schlake » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:21 pm

I just noticed/bought the character creation software (TDE5 Heros) on the dtrpg site. When I tried to make an elf spellcaster it charged me for Spellcasting as an advantage. Our group had always thought that elves were good spellcasters because they didn't have to pay for spellcasting as an advantage. Were we wrong?
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zalamx
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby zalamx » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:51 am

The advantage is factored into the AP cost of the race, so you still purchase it when you purchase the Elf race.
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Schlake
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Schlake » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:55 am

But does that mean that an elf only gets 55 AP to spend on advantages, or do they still have 80AP to spend?
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bluedragon7
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby bluedragon7 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:28 am

Officially you only have 55 left, but that would be easy to houserule if everyone agrees.
With each additional book the selection of advantages gets even bigger, so if you find more and more that fit the concept, in my mind go for it, just remember that you will be missing those AP in other areas of your character, so better start more experienced in that case. As TDE does not have any bundle deals, your character can always be measured on his AP score. So as long as everyone in the group is fine with it, by all means do it.

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Schlake
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Schlake » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:29 pm

One of the things that made elves special, when I made a non-elf spellcaster, is that since it looked like elves got spellcasting for free it meant that elves had a big enough pool of AP to actually get something beneficial for themselves.
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Bosper
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Bosper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:35 am

Part of the game is that no one gets special treatment or unfair advantages. so yeah no extra advantage for elves.

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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby bluedragon7 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:19 am

Bosper wrote:Part of the game is that no one gets special treatment or unfair advantages. so yeah no extra advantage for elves.

I would prefer if part of the game was to create Heroes that make sense ingame. As long as you don’t give anything for free, so they have to pay for everything extra they get you can still easily see that the Elf has then more AP than the human.
If you then insist on same AP for everyone, you can just give the human the difference as extra AP.
But I am more interested in playing a character that feels „real“ in the world rather than playing competitive.
TDE is not a computer game where each class has to be balanced for the sake of the game but it is a rich game world where elves are more than humans with pointy ears. Imagine the 15 year old squire having the same proficiency and experience as his 45 year Knight. That is ok if you want to compete in the number of Orcs you kill. But in TDE the squire could be less encrusted in his views and therefore better to talk to those Orcs instead of killing them.
If this game were just another DnD clone, game balance would be paramount, but it is not and while it is good that there are no hidden advantages and the value of individual proficiencies seems to be fairly balanced, there is no need to put the highest priority on competitive gaming. That priority should be with making good stories that fit the world.

So there would be at most one Elf in the group, while he would be better at some things his attitude towards worldly things would not make him outshine the other heroes.

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Bosper
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Bosper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:41 am

Elves do still make sense, you just wont start with a 1000 year old one, you will be still young and unexperienced. And they dont have less AP for advantages, they just have some obligatory advantages so they DO make sense.

What you ask for is special treatment for elves and everyone else has to adapt. Thats not in the spirit of the game.

The squire in your example would be a character of less AP. Simple as that. If you want your elf to be superior, just ask your group if its ok that you start with an extra 200 AP because of reasons. But you must then also accept that Player B says "its ok, but my dwarf is already 400 years old and gets 1000 AP extra"

Old elves arent powerful because they are born this way, but because they had lots of time to learn, thats not ruled by advantages but special abilities and skills

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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby bluedragon7 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:00 am

Required Advantages should not count to the limit, especially as the limit of 80 is already low in the first place considering how many advantages are available to choose from.
The spirit of the game should be to enable playing characters that are plausible in the game world not to make everyone the same.

If you are ok with different amounts of starting AP, why not with different allowances for Advantages? If the one does not bother you why the other? Why should Elves be suddenly less likely to be gracious due to their restrictions in Advantage choices when the lore describes them as being generally considered more gracious?

I can see young gamers rooted in MMORPG demanding that but if you want to take in the lore you should not restrict yourself to this style of competitive gaming and rather look how you best can represent a character that really fits in the world

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Bosper
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Re: Elves And Spellcasting

Postby Bosper » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Where exactly are elves less likely to be gracious? They get a Dexterity bonus and can still take advantages in that direction. I really dont get why elves have to be incredebly superior to everyone else from birth. Or do you have to have all the advantages that an elf and an mage can have combined? I really do not see any problem here except if you want to try to max out power fantasies.
Nothing in the rules contradict the lore. It would contradict it if elves would NOT have obligatory spellcasting and two-voiced singing, the rules make sure that the elf makes sense.
The lore nowhere states that the typical elf is a spellcaster with astral power 7 and enhanced regeneration 95 that masters two weapon fighting from the age of 3.


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